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and for this time together we do ask your blessing and your guidance as we look into your word particularly looking at passages tonight and seeing the uh the literary devices that your writers
0:15
use to pull the whole Cannon of scripture together in each part we ask that you would teach us guide us help us
0:25
to hear even The Echoes and hear them more clearly each and every day as we read your word we ask for your blessing on our time together that it might be
0:35
pleasing in your sight that it might be filled with the Holy Spirit for we ask in Jesus name amen now I'm going to try to avoid a
0:45
ditch tonight I pulled my glasses out of my suit coat only to realize that the frames are broken so the blind are leading the blind is leading I hope
0:56
you're not following too closely um but I want to say a few things about the um the rest of the of this session I
1:09
mentioned a couple weeks ago my intention is to begin um week week nine that you have in front of you that those notes begin the actual um tracing of themes we're going
1:22
to start with creation the new creation and then um Adam man and uh of course the last Adam so the um and there's so much involved in each of those that
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we're not going to exhaust I think each one of them could be a book in itself the the um uh the motif of creation all through scripture and of course that of
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of man God's crown of creation is also uh woven throughout scripture but the purpose is to to start to show by example the trajectory of scripture
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which is the essence of biblical theology um we we haven't been doing as many examples as I would like and so tonight we're still basically in week eight
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finishing up some examples that help illustrate the more difficult of the three literary devices and that is the echo so we're going to talk somewhat about that tonight um
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after this session which will probably go about 12 weeks total as we did lose some time from the hurricane uh want to take a break over Christmas U the next
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one if we'll either go back to Leviticus which is the plan the next biblical theology we're going to focus on the trajectory of Covenant themes focusing
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more on the um the themes that ran through the nation and people of Israel and up to of course the Messiah so kind of a broad view it it follows the
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um the CHR chology that we've talked about before there's the Adam or adamic CH christology tracing Jesus Christ as the
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son of man as the seed of woman then there's the abrahamic christology tracing Christ through the abrahamic Covenant so we're going to follow those broad lines and what we're dealing with
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in this finishing up this session is the adamic christology the creation uh Arc and then the other one is called the Covenant Arc Covenant Arc so we'll we'll get to that that's just
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get a little overview of um Coming Attractions so going back then about the talk about the
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echo this is the more difficult of the three um as as I mentioned last
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Illusions usually have a marker a phrase a word something that triggers the connection or as one author said activates said activates the earlier textual
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connection and and that's that's known then as an illusion these are not present for
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Echoes which is one of the reasons they're called Echoes although as I mentioned a week or so ago I I don't know which one it was but all three of these are echoes all of these are textual references to earlier texts and
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just some of them are more are louder and more um obvious than others but they really the rubric the umbrella is Echoes but the echo of the echo the the third
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case is is typically very very subtle so I'm going to try to read um through one eye the kind of a
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see where to start I made the comment last week that and I think I made it maybe even the week before that these are not necessary to understand them the meaning
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of most texts what we're studying is is not essential to your faith not catching an echo not catching an illusion is
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probably not going to to do any damage to your faith catch ing them however will deepen it that's that's kind of where we are is that when you when you
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begin to listen for these you'll begin to hear them and when you begin to hear them the scriptures will become even more uh harmonious and they'll become
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even more alive you'll see it truly is a living word and that um you know when when Jesus says that that God is the god of Abraham Isaac and Jacob he says he's not a god of the Dead He's the god of
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the living and his word is living and and so and so the the quotations are often meant to explain the New Covenant in Jesus Christ
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that's how they're used the Illusions are typically meant to take the reader back into the context of the old Covenant where all of this was first
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promised because all of the promises of God are yes and amen in Christ so that's what the illusion does the echo creates an atmosphere and therefore or it is more
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subtle because it is it is generally softer and it may not even be intentional now in terms of the
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three the quotation is definitely intentional especially when it has the formula but the author is intentionally quoting an earlier scripture so this one
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for example John in his the opening verse of his gospel when he says in the beginning n beginning n AR it's really hard to conceive that he thought he came up with that phrase himself you know he was definitely
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alluding to Genesis 1:1 and you can see that as he goes on to talk about the the life and the light he's he's now bringing into the context of his gospel
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the context of creation and we we saw um we'll we'll talk about this more next week when we talk about creation I won't get into that the echo is quite possibly un and I
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have you ever said something and afterwards thought hey that was pretty good I mean it's quite possible that the New Testament writer after he wrote what he wrote heard the echo himself he wasn't necessarily thinking
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about it ahead of time is what I'm saying it's not pre-planned and so the the um the source of the echo is is not in the conscious mind but
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rather in the subconscious and that's why the echo can be so important to us because that subconscious subconscious mind is saturated in
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saturated in scripture and it's the world that they breath the air that they breathe and the world that they live in but it's also the vocabulary of Revelation so we're we're not reading it
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in order to be saved but we're we're reading it and listening and hearing that we that we might learn more of the Salvation that we have in Jesus Christ so some some
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um unlike quotations and Illusions Echoes need not be intentional indeed they usually are not when discerned Echoes reveal the biblical subconscious of the author the manner by which his mind and heart are
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so formed and influenced by God's word an author typically generates echoes in a text because his or her mind is saturated with the source text so
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um I if we if we bring it into to the uh to the kind of the modern biblical studies okay in order to
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do a quotation you need a good concordance you can do a word study okay or a study Bible and you can find them
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but if you were writing and you wanted to quote something you could you could search your concordance you could go to Bible Gateway you could find a quote in other words you could you can set out
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purposefully to find a quote that works within your context you do that when you're you know when you're doing a a an essay for high school or college okay you can find that material in order to
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be let be a little deeper there's some there's now there's a deeper Fami familiarity with the earlier text and and you're also anticipating that your readers have that
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same familiarity okay now it doesn't take a whole lot of familiarity to say in the beginning you know that is the begin but there are a lot of of illusions that are made in the New
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Testament to passages that we're probably not as familiar with as Genesis 1:1 but the writer was and I think largely many of the early
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Believers especially those from the synagogue were probably also familiar enough to catch those Illusions Echoes require
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saturation at that point you're not doing it on purpose and your readers may not even catch them catch them but they're there because that's where
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you are and Paul especially but but John as well I mean all of the all of the New Testament writers are so saturated in the Old Testament scriptures that
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they're they're not intentionally echoing Old Testament passages and events and personages it's just the way they think and I think by extension the
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more we listen and strive to hear those echoes well the more saturated we're going to become in the scriptures and vice versa the more saturated we become in the scriptures the more we hear those
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Echoes it's not it's not something that we're necessarily in a in a way we're setting out consciously to do it but only because we want to be in
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God's word we're not really setting out to find an echo in every passage it doesn't it doesn't work that way there's there's no methodology there's methodology to
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these you know there's there's a hermeneutic or an exegetical methodology on how to handle quotations we did that on on Sunday in Romans where Paul is
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quoting from Deuteronomy 30 but into that quotation he brings in Deuteronomy 9 and yet he changes it from the Commandment to Christ being brought down
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from heaven or brought up from the abyss so we can we can get into how Paul's using that quote that's an exegetical use of a quotation Illusions we can we
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can look at John one and realize that okay starting out that way clearly puts our mind back in creation and then when you read John and he talks about life
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and light you can see that that's what that's what he's doing he's bringing the whole context of creation into the prologue of his gospel and really that's
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setting the stage for the rest of the Gospel but it's most obvious in in the first 14
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vers well that's a good point I would say I would say definitely you would give a citation for that one okay not the next one though because you're not actually quoting
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anything and you're probably your marker is probably something that everybody knows so for example um it was the best of times it was the worst of times was
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it the other way around um you know Dickens Tale of Two Cities I I don't actually have to cite that do I you
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should oh well well well well I'm not modern I'm postmodern um but that's kind of the point of the illusion it's you you know you once more
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unto the breach okay how many people read Shakespeare you know let's slip the dogs of war okay Mark Anthony okay boy what's
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up your what's got your undies in a bundle um you know you say that and that's an illusion but it doesn't necessarily it's part of it would be
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like if you're it's part of a dialogue and you wouldn't necessarily say okay I'm quoting Shakespeare uh Julius Caesar act you know that's a bit much okay definitely the quotation
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but although the biblical writers don't always do that um but the illusion that's that's kind of like public
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domain okay yeah yeah I don't have to consider your ref if you don't get the reference sometimes it becomes a it it is it's part of the cultural language part of
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the cultural textuality is what it is and that's the inter sorry intertextuality you know you're just using and and I said weeks ago when we talked about that is that we do that in our speech you know we we do use pop
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culture we do use literary references and you know sometimes people don't get them because they've not unbelievably watched Princess Bride but most people get it and you don't need to say oh that
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was from you know it's like um uh what's his name I got that reference okay with the with the Wizard of Oz the flying monkeys so this
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one and that's that's like the rules of citation in writing today how much of it are you you know what point do you need to give credit where credit is Du otherwise you're committing plagiarism the thing about an illusion is it's typically just a word
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you know it's it's not there's really no danger of Paul being plagiarizing Moses okay he's he's just using a word and
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then your whole mind goes to Moses Moses still has what God gave him you know Paul didn't write Genesis or um
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Exodus right that's an illus that's an illusion yeah nrk is the marker in the beginning that's the marker it works it activates Genesis 1 in your mind and now it's
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doing its job as you read John 1 Genesis 1 is now the backdrop that's what an illusion does okay so um again I'm not I'm not terribly rigid in ter that in
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the terms of citations I would not cite that I would say that's just vernacular okay in the in the second temple position that would have been just the the vernacular
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right or someone says sopan you know then you go okay you
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right it's passing out yes and certainly uh CS Lewis was in a completely different era in terms of literary awareness especially classical literature um but what's what's passing out is being replaced by Princess Bride
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okay I mean no culture is without its intertextual references that's just way we communicate and so we can't be we don't we don't necessarily if if you
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were to site every uh illusion your your margins in your Bible would be larger than your Bible because I think there are that many Echoes no no you're
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not you don't site them is again they they weren't intentional probably very rarely or is an echo intentional um it's it's after you have
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read sometimes I've caught Echoes when I'm reading the Old Testament I don't catch it when I'm
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reading the reading the new because I read the new more often than I read the old I'm sure I'm the only one who does that um but you know when I when I'm in the Old Testament and
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and I I read something it reminds me of something that Paul says in Romans it's like that's not the way the echo is bouncing but it it helps me realize that
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what Paul is doing there is echoing what I'm reading in Zechariah or something else and that's what we're going to look at this evening the The
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Echoes uh and they are more subtle uh unlike Illusions Echoes are by Nature faint and subtle
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an author must render an illusion sufficent sufficiently explicit for the audience to recognize the illusion if if
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you make an illusion again this is you know this is like making a reference to um you know I made the reference at lunch one time with with Ariel and and
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someone else and I made the comment don't forget the canoli okay the other person didn't get it like okay you haven't watched The Godfather but uh the waiter however had
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watched The Godfather and he brought us a plate of canoli we hadn't ordered any but he said we got into discussion about New York get getting canoli in New York and he
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comes over you don't need to go to New York and he brings us a plate of canoli um this is baden's downtown I'll put in a plug for them okay Pat leesi is the owner so great pizzas and great canoli
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anyhow I digress um if if the person you know you've had you've done this you've made a reference you've made an illusion and the people you're you're talking to don't get it
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okay it's like okay you have to explain it it's not funny anymore so um the writer if you're if you're a writer today to go back to what Tim was saying you probably ought to limit your
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Illusions to Greek mythology depending on what audience you're writing to certainly if you're writing to young adults forget it don't don't even bother um you know if you if you're not thinking of your
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audience when you make an illusion that it's a wasted effort or you're just trying to be audite and impress people um and neither either way it's a failure so I think he's right that the the
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illusion needs to be sufficiently recognizable to the audience in order for it to do what it's intended to do but Echoes are more like Whispers
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understated and understated and Elusive and and they and they get they get pretty soft in the in some scripture to to the point where you're
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not really sure you heard it and so that point you just say okay maybe I did next time I read it or next time I am reading through the Old Testament and I kind of hear the rebounding of the echo from the
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book of Hebrews or whatever then I realized yeah that that was an echo that was an echo
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yeah I I would say that the first one you mentioned the echo where an event brings to mind another event that's more of an illusion illusion okay that and usually the the later writer will say
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something so for example Paul will say The Rock in the wilderness all right and that rock was Christ you see that's an illusion that's certainly not a quotation but there's a
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marker there isn't there The Rock but what was The Rock The Rock that the water came out of okay so you know that that's an event
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that the writer is is using as an illustration but he's bringing that whole idea of a rebellious people and
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yet the yet the overseeing Christ who was with them through the spirit the cloud and the pillar all through that Wilderness journey and now he is with the church
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okay um Echo don't have that clear connectivity but they they do I should say they don't have a a
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visible literary marker a connection like a quote or an an a marker verse or passage word that ties the two together
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it's just more of that vague recollection of sound that comes from the history of God's Redemptive plan
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but but the writers the the event that happened in Jesus's let me put my thoughts together the recording of the events in Jesus's childhood parallel the events in Moses's
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childhood and that parallel is fairly easy to easy to see but the echo is actually more of Psalm 2 why do the Nations
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rage and the kings of the earth PL a vain thing they scheme against the Lord and his anointed see that's that's the thought that's behind both events
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so yeah the events form kind of a substate but they're they're not oh that's neat yeah that happened to Moses no that's not the point the point is we
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have the enmity of the prince of this world working through the kings of this world to try to destroy the Lord's anointed whether it be Moses or Jesus so
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the the first would be more I me I mean Matthew actually quotes from Jeremiah which Rama Rachel weeping and and cannot be comforted um and that
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that's a tough one because of the context there the historical context has nothing to do with with uh with Jesus at all um but the the event
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itself Echoes of course just like in real life Echoes can be loud or soft so you can have an echo like
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Herod ordering that all male babies two years and under be slaughtered and you know you think pharaoh and his command to kill the male Children of the
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Hebrews um there's no quotation formula there really isn't a marker although there kind of is you know the idea of killing the male children that's kind of
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a marker um but really it's just a loud Echo but really behind that Echo though what I'm trying to get at is that what we talked about this AB mentioned this last week you know that you go back and
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then you go you go back and you bounce over here um you would you would go from the the story of of Herod killing the the children You' go back to Exodus with
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the order of pharaoh you know the the Hebrew midwives and and all of that but how many of us would go to Psalm 2 and that's really the echo that's resounding through these passages is
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Psalm 2 obviously it's not resounding through Exodus because it Psalm 2 wasn't written yet but by the time Matthew's recording herod's command Psalm 2 is
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part of the textual world of second temple second Temple
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Israel he's he's uh in in the passage that we talked about last week he's he's alluding or he's quoting Jeremiah 31 from Jeremiah 31 and Matthew two I think it is um the
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the echo that is resounding through those passages is Psalm 2 yeah and so Echoes are in the Old Testament too very much so you'll have passages in the prophets that are ex that are echoing
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The Exodus and there are others that are alluding to The Exodus and then there are others that are quoting although there's not as much inter biblical quoting in the Old
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Testament as there is in the new the Old Testament does not quote itself very often it's more Illusions we get to the New Testament and that's where we have the quotation formulas and the Old
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Testament quotes although most of the time they've been modified in the light of the the Christ event okay so I I think uh you know we start to see
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um some examples this evening and then next week starting with the trajectories of of creation new creation of first adom last adom we start to to work
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through and and again it cannot be exhaustive because every single one of them U people have written books about what the scripture has to say the trajectory of the the two atoms um you
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can see that with with the rivers and we'll see that a little bit tonight um the garden is another one the Tabernacle is another Sabbath is another one there there's so many um Life Death sin these
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all become part of the symbolic world of scripture and the events that are associated with them like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah for example those events then become part of
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that symbolic World once again so that Isaiah can say that had you know had God not been gracious had he not left us a Remnant we would have been as Sodom we would have been as Gomorrah he didn't
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have to rear the story you know that's an illusion from Isaiah back to Genesis okay does that that make sense how we're seeing the connectivity of the texts to
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each other um and we talked last week about the fact that the chronological order of the books in the case of scripture doesn't really matter except
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that everything starts with the Pento and everything ends with Revelation but the you know Justin was telling me about uh when when Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 that that Christ died according to the
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scriptures and he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures um you know he's encountered people that that would say that Paul was alluding to the gospels which hadn't been written
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yet as far as far as we know they hadn't even been written yet but that's how that's how we think we get locked into the order of our Bibles not realizing that they haven't always been organized
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that way they haven't always been in that order and it just happens to be because it's divinely authored it doesn't really matter but because of that we can't really tell
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chronologically where the echo started although mostly it's Genesis pretty much everything started the sound waves started in Genesis and then they puls
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through the rest of the scripture but like a canyon it's sometimes hard to find the source of the echo that it's it's bouncing off the
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different writers of scripture and we might for example we might not know who was first Micah or Isaiah in terms of of something that is very similar in their
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writings or Hosea you know or Amos we we can't really tell that's not what matters because what we're doing is we're living in a symbolic world of
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scripture and the echo are bouncing back and forth reinforcing one another it's not that important that we decide which of the prophets wrote it
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first okay so let's um let's start to get into some actual text if you have your Bibles let's go ahead and and um
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1 and the context of this is the is the teaching or the baptism of John and what John was doing out in the the Wilderness and we read starting in verse
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um 19 and this is the witness of John when the Jews sent to him priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him who are you and he confessed and did not deny and he
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confessed I am not the Christ and then they asked him what then are you Elijah and he said I am not are you the prophet and he answered no
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all right we'll stop there for a moment because what we have here are two Illusions okay we don't have any um
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actual quotes but we have an illusion to Malachi and to Deuteronomy the uh the one in Malachi it'll be easier for me to use my
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notes um the ma the malach illusion is in chapter 4 behold I will send you Elijah the
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prophet before the coming of the great and Dreadful day of the Lord and He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to their fathers lest I come and strike
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the Earth with a curse okay now that's actually an illusion to Genesis three by by Malachi strike the Earth with a curse
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right okay so you're bouncing back and that's all meant to be by the Holy Spirit I I believe okay so we we go back to Malachi and we say okay this is where
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the scribes or the Levites and the priests this is where they got the question are you Elijah because of course Elijah must come before the great and terrible day
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of the Lord comes before the Messiah comes Elijah must come so they ask John are you are you Elijah then they he says no I'm not Elijah then they say well you the
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prophet well that's Deuteronomy 18 where Moses says that God will raise up a prophet like unto me from your from your among your
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brethren and will put my words in his mouth and he shall speak to them all that I command him and it shall be that whoever will not hear my words which he
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speaks in my name I will require it him now that verse becomes first of all it becomes the
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um pedigree of a true prophet in the same passage Moses says that if what the prophet says does not come to pass he
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says you you near that was not from the Lord you need not fear him I think that's a very important phrase you need not fear him that what does that imply regarding the true
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Prophet you better fear Him okay it also helps explain why passages like um Isaiah where the Isaiah nine the promise
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of the Virgin nine or seven the Virgin birth seven um has an immediate fulfillment in Isaiah 8 with the or possibly the birth of
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Hezekiah okay either the birth of the prophet's own son or the birth of Hezekiah is recorded well birth of ezekiah is not recorded but we don't know whether he's even born yet um but
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there's a birth right away and we know there has to be a fulfillment because the prophecy involves the kings of Syria and of Israel and that the the these two
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kings will be defeated before the child is old enough to know good from Evil okay so there there's an immediate and it's by that immediate fulfillment that the prophet's credentials are
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established and therefore the longer term prophecies can be not just believed they can be and they should be feared so again that's a whole complex of the
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prophetic offer office that is all wrapped up in the expectations of second Temple Israel they're looking for the Christ now what's interesting in terms
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of christology and that era is that they they don't necessarily combine these three titles Christ Elijah the prophet
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into one person do they cuz if they did they wouldn't ask the subsequent two if they understood that the Christ although
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he's not the Elijah he is the prophet they didn't have that connection made so they could you well he already denied I'm he knew what they were going to ask right off because every the expectation
37:48
for the Messiah being we're we're living in the fourth Kingdom of Daniel this is the time I'm not the Christ don't even go there okay you're not the Christ are you Elijah which means you're right in
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front of him well he denies that and have you ever wondered why he denies that because a little bit later what is
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hearing oh okay all right well maybe they'll come in and get some Echoes um yeah I don't think so um yeah if you if you have if you can hear it he was Elijah who was to come
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so these are Illusions they're um it's really annoying looking out of one GL
38:51
lens okay um but he responds let's go back to the text and I'm I'm using this example um I'm B I'm actually borrowing and expanding from another article but I'm using this because um I
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made the comment a few weeks ago that you know the the writers themselves may not really have known what it was fully that they were writing okay and I think
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this is an example now John wasn't writing anything John the Baptist but his his response indicates that he also did not fully understand what was going on and we're going to see that when we
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look at the the reference that he makes he says um down
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in verse 22 then they said to him who are you if if you're not the Christ and you're not elishah and you're not the prophet who are you and that question of course means a
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whole lot more than what's your name it means by what Authority are you doing what you're doing Jesus is going to ask he's going to get them back isn't he later on when they asked him by what
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Authority he was doing what he was doing he saidwell you tell me what Authority by what Authority did John baptize and he he caught them uh in his trap and he said they wouldn't answer him so I'm not
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going to answer you so that that that's what they're asking John what Authority um do you have to be doing what you're doing if you're not the Christ and you're not Elijah and you're not the
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prophet he said I am a voice of one crying out as in the wilderness make straight the way of the Lord as Isaiah the prophet said there's the formula
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okay so In this passage we have two Illusions and a quotation all right if we go back to
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Isaiah um that's in Isaiah 40 um the voice of one crying in the wilderness prepare the way of the Lord make straight make straight in the
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desert a highway for our God every Valley shall be exalted and every Mountain shall be brought low the Crooked PA places shall be made straight
41:11
and the high the rough places smooth the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and All Flesh shall see it together for the mouth of the Lord has spoken and this is
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the promise of God returning to Israel make straight the way of the Lord now there's not the concept of the
41:33
Incarnation in this verse there there is elsewhere but not in this verse this is the return of Yahweh now that is what the Incarnation is It's the Return of
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Yahweh to his people um so John is quoting Isaiah and he sees himself in that role okay but
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what he didn't see and maybe he didn't catch the echo in Malachi because the role of making straight a path for the Lord is the role
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of Elijah and so in Matthew chapter 11 um Jesus is talking about John he's just
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been given word that John has been was it imprisoned he hadn't been executed yet but he's imprisoned and as they departed Jesus began to say to the
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multitude concerning John what did you go out into the Wilderness to see a reed shaken by the wind but what did you go out to see a man clothed in soft
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garments indeed those who wear soft garments live in King's houses but what did you go out to see a prophet yes I say to you and more than a prophet for
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this is he of whom it is written behold I send my messenger before your face who will prepare your way before you that's from Malachi
43:05
from Malachi again and Malachi who is post exilic is echoing or alluding to
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Isaiah okay so Matthew 11 this this is how this trajectory
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Works goes back to what is that Malachi 41 31 okay goes back to Malachi
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John um John the Baptist in John in John 1 so if we go to John so this this is
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Jesus speaking but in John one um he goes back to
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Isaiah directly but he misses the reference to Malachi maybe because they specific
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asked are you Elijah but if you read Malachi it's Elijah in Malachi 4 who is the
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messenger but then the messenger is also the Christ the messenger of the Covenant so there's some overlap in these Echoes and I think it's um it's like Echoes
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that they they do the the sound waves do overlap they augment and sometimes because of that they're a little difficult to separate and
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Source but Jesus is doing that for us recorded by Matthew because he goes on to say in that passage in Matthew he says assuredly I say to you
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among those born of woman there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist but he who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he and from the days of John the Baptist until now the
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Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force that's a tough one right there that is one of the toughest passages or lines in the New Testament for all the prophets and the
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law prophesied until John and if you are willing to receive it he is Elijah who was who is to come he who has ears to hear Let Him
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hear and as I've said before I can't prove this and I'm not dogmatic about it but in a sense that phrase he who has ears to hear Let Him hear
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that's all about what we've been talking about the quotes the Illusions and The Echoes now we all in Christ by the Holy
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Spirit we have ears to hear that doesn't mean those ears are not are are do not need to be trained they do because
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frankly we're not used to listening so it's it's not that we have to get those ears I guess that's what I was saying this is not this is not essential to your salvation that's what
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gives you those ears to hear but your hearing needs to be trained and it may be John was a bit confused remember he sent his his disciples to Jesus and he
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said are are you the one or should we look for another what do you mean are you am I the one you saw the Spirit descending as a dove on top of me okay but obviously what what Jesus was doing
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was not what John was expecting the Messiah to do so he was not infallible in his in his judgment and his assessment and it may have very well been that when he was having that
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interchange with the Levites and the priests he didn't make the connection between Elijah and the messenger because what Isaiah prophesies
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in Isaiah 40 is the spirit and power of of Elijah which is what John the Baptist that's what John the Baptist came in the
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spirit and power of Elijah so the scripture clears up itself there's nothing wrong in what John says to the Levites and the priests he's not
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Elijah they they probably thinking as good literalists that Elijah was going to come back because what Elijah what he didn't actually die did
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he okay you know there there are some people who who think that the two witnesses in Revelation are Enoch and Elijah because they they some of you probably heard that um there's actually
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no basis for that there's there's something else going on there and again that's also Echoes and uh apocalyptic is full of Echoes and
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Illusions which makes it so hard that's what makes it so hard to interpret um but there was a thought that Elijah was coming back having not died it wasn't
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necessarily a resurrection he was some place where he was still living and he would just come back um I
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problem actually that's right you thought you got out of it didn't you and you know of course the two witnesses do get killed so it's like we thought we got out of it nope just had to wait 6,000 years or
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okay but did he did yes but why did he ask are you either one or should we look
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really oh I'm sure I I think you're absolutely right I don't think his faith lagged I don't think uh but I'm just saying I don't he I don't think he understood any more than the disciples did no no I'm just saying when he said I
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am the voice of he knew who yeah he knew he was yeah what he didn't connect was that that was the That Was Elijah who was to was to come that he didn't make that connection between ma Malachi 3 in Malachi
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4 he may have made the connection and thought these dunderheads I'm not going to say I'm Elijah because they'll think I'm actually I'm actually Elijah you know they they won't understand that I'm not speaking
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literally but I'm speaking biblically and so he just says no I'm not Elijah I don't know we we're not in John's mind I'm just trying to show how how when you follow these Echoes they
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don't always follow the same path okay this one follows just really One path John goes back to Isaiah 40 but jesus takes us back to Malachi 3 which also
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takes us back to Isaiah 40 okay so that they arrive at the same place but one took a intermediate hop to get there and he doesn't go in Mal in Jesus doesn't go
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back here he just stops there because that in Malachi 3 has Isaiah 40 in it okay when when you when you activate one
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Old Testament passage or context you often activate several others too and that's that's kind of the beauty of this um canonical hermeneutic is that you're
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you're not just looking for proof texts the the how do I it's like your you're you're reading a
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passage but passage but then a whole bunch of Revelation is coming into view behind the passage you're reading okay like the um the the
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the the Cinematic or or theatrical method where the the speaker is first in the dark all you have is a spotlight on the speaker but as the speaker gives his
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monologue things start to appear here in the background and sometimes A Chorus begins you know you the everything becomes deeper in perspective when you
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when you begin to hear these Echoes and Trace them okay um so that's one example of of Echoes or as
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I said um John's response his in his interrogation and his response he's interrogated by two Illusions are you
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Elijah are you the prophet he answers with a quote from Isaiah so two Illusions and a quote and that's often the kind of the combination that um it's
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not always quotations and as we saw on Sunday the quotations themselves Paul was a master at at conjoining quotations
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Romans 3 when he talks about the anthropology of a fallen man he just most bullet points but he weaves them together so that you get in Romans 3 a a
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just a complete comprehensive picture of total depravity and yet it's not one passage from the Old Testament it's half a dozen and then as as I mentioned on Sunday the Deuteronomy 30 doesn't begin
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with do not say in your heart that's Deuteronomy 9 but we'll see Paul had a reason for appending Deuteronomy 9 24 to the
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passage in Deuteronomy 30 11-14 he had a reason for doing that that'll come out in Romans 11 he doesn't want the Gentiles to boast do not say in your
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heart okay but how do you I mean we have great study AIDS now but but my Bible does not have the footnote to
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Deuteronomy 9 it just has a footnote to Deuteronomy 30 and you go back to Deuteronomy 30 and you realize that's not exactly what it says okay it
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doesn't say do not say in your heart and it also doesn't talk about Christ talks about the Commandment okay and actually in some of your translations it doesn't talk about the abyss it talks about the
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sea going over the sea to bring the Commandment back and now Paul's going down into the abyss to bring Christ up and you have to you have to think through what Paul is actually doing the
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purpose of canonical theology is establish lishing the overarching framework within which you can see what he's doing does that make
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sense all right hopefully um stop me anytime if you have a question all right uh John one again verse
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let's start in verse 45 set the context Philip found Nathaniel and said to him we have found him of whom Moses in the law and also the prophets wrote Jesus of Nazareth the son of Joseph and Nathaniel
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said to him can any good thing come out of Nazareth love that Philip said to him come and
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see Jesus saw Nathaniel coming to him and he said of him behold an Israelite indeed in whom there is no
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guile and Nathaniel said to him how do you know me Jesus answered and said to him before Philip called you when you were under the Fig Tree I saw you yeah isn't that something yeah
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Nathaniel answered him Rabbi you are the Son of God you are the king of Israel most people read that and think I missed something something okay I'm listening
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to this conversation and I just missed something somehow Nathaniel jumped from Jesus saying when you were under the tree I saw you to you are the Son of God
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you are the king of Israel well what was Nathaniel doing under that tree he was
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praying that that is where Jewish men they in the Groves they would go under a tree and they would pray to Yahweh how did Jesus see him under the
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tree he was the one to whom he was praying the spirit revealed to Nathaniel we don't have that in the text but without that and and without that comes
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actually from extra biblical archaeological and extra biblical writing as to how they did the mechanics of their prayers that they would go under the fig trees with their
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overarching would essentially disappear because under that tree they would be hidden from the rest of the world and they would pray and Jesus saw
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him praying but that still doesn't answer the question of why Jesus said what he said concerning Nathaniel an Israelite indeed in whom there is no
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guile now you you can pass that off as Jesus knowing the heart of all men that's fine okay and and you can go along and you would be correct and um
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because apparently Nathaniel was a really straight up guy as far as I guess as far as most of the disciples go Nathaniel was really near the top I
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think the others had some gu one of them was full of it but I think they all had you know John and um James sons of thunder I think there's some guile mixed in there you know like should we call
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down lightning from Heaven to destroy them because they won't listen to you is some gu you know not what Spirit you are of Peter okay with his foot permanently placed in his mouth I think
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so Nathaniel is we don't really hear much about much about him so why does Jesus single him out and say an Israelite indeed in whom there is
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no guile well the answer is in is in Zephaniah chapter Zephaniah chapter 3 verse 13 the remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness
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speak no lies nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth the word deceitful is the word the Greek word for
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guile for they shall feed their flocks and and lie down and no one shall be M shall make them afraid there's more to this passage that Nathaniel represents
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than you get from just the words of John 1:47 and 1:47 and following there is underlying this and
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and this is why Jesus says what he says about Nathaniel underlying this there is the whole Old Testament uh theme of
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remnant of true Israel that Paul's going to pick up in Romans 9 when he says not all Israel is Israel that again that's an echo probably not an illusion but when when
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Zephaniah when the Lord says through Zephaniah the remnant of Israel shall do no do no unrighteousness that's the true Israel of which Paul is speaking in Romans 9
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but I wouldn't call it an illusion because he doesn't use any of those words when he says all Israel is not Israel he's not alluding to Zephaniah 3 does that make sense there's no marker
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there okay the word guile is our marker also the word Israelite indeed so there's kind of two markers in John 1: 149 that
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take us back to Zephaniah 3 although one of them an Israelite indeed also bounces off into all unless unless the Lord has left us a Remnant we would have been as
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Sodom we would have been as Gomorrah so one of them bounces through all the different Remnant passages you can find in the Old Testament but what Jes Jesus is doing you go back to the context of
