0:08
uh I'm a little bit torn I uh am trying to move somewhat quickly through Amos and not um belabor the points here because I was hoping uh it seems to me now perhaps too ambitiously to get all
0:18
the way through Amos in one go but I don't want to leave us at an awkward place of having maybe two chapters left when we're done with the session so um I've taken the route the this morning
0:31
that we're going to pick up a thread there are two things here in Amos chapter 5 that I would really like to dig into because I think it's worth the time to sink deeply here um so I hope
0:44
you will bear with me in this and hopefully it'll be uh edifying to us all but we talked a little bit and I hinted at these as I was anticipating this in Amos chapter 5 we discussed last week uh
0:55
the sort of General outline of the chapter some of the structure that we see there um the fact that it is a lament it's is certainly indicated this way even though it seems to be a lament for something that is coming to them um
1:08
almost a sort of Future Past um that he is almost standing in the future looking backwards and lamenting these things on them but he levels this in this sort of
1:19
second paragraph at least that's the way it's paragraphed in my copy of the scripture uh sort of verse 4 through six or seven depending on how you want to
1:29
divide that up and we have already discussed to some extent this idea of of seek me that you may live but he says here in verse four
1:39
uh thus says the Lord to the house of Israel seek me that you may live do not Resort or or actually really the word should be seek it's the same word in both places I don't know why my copy
1:50
has Resort do not seek bethl do not come to gilgal nor cross over to beeba for gilgal will certainly go into captivity and Beth will come to trouble seek the
2:02
Lord that you may live or he will break forth like a fire oh House of J Joseph and it will consume with none to quench it for bethl for those who turn aside Justice into the wormwood and cast
2:14
righteousness down to the Earth there's so much to discuss and see here in Amos we didn't even really discuss the preceding idea of the sort of decimation that he describes there really it's a
2:25
reverse of decimation only one in 10 is left rather than one in 10 being taken we could go on and on but I want to I want to focus on this uh aspect particularly these three shrines because
2:35
they've shown up before and they're going to show up in other places in the prophets but they have a particular meaning to the people of Israel and they have frankly a very particular meaning to the nation of
2:46
Israel so when we think about the rubric that we laid out at the beginning of the the things we can extract from the prophets there is historical context and what it meant to the people at the time
2:57
but I think there's meat here for us in our day and age for what this means to us as well despite the fact that I don't think any of you are going to go to gilgal or bethl um although maybe you
3:08
will I don't know um so he presents this sort of Paradigm of of these shrines um and I I did mention last week one of the
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commentators feels like these three shrines really dictate the structure of the whole book I disagree but I think it is a significant point or not of the whole book of the whole chapter um it is a significant Point here in in the
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chapter um geographically I've erased my map but um if you think about where the outlines of these things were um along the
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Mediterranean uh and this is going to be really crude but you have sort of the Dead Sea area here and the river goes up um Gil gal's over here right by the river um bethl is kind of over here and
3:55
Bersa is even further down um and actually Bersa is past the Border down into the southern Kingdom um I've drawn my lines very crookedly here but I think
4:19
um okay right that would make sense so um when we think about these shrines where he's talking about them it's it's an idea of a pilgrimage the idea that they are making a pilgrimage
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the people of the northern kingdom for the most part the northern kingdom is centered roughly north of all of this so they're traveling down to go to these shrines it's it's this idea of a
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pilgrimage that they're going there to seek um so they're they're seeking out bethl they're seeking out gilgal and in the case of berseba it's it's almost 50 miles into the border of Judah so they
4:53
he uses this term crossover crossing the border these shrines were hollowed by them because of their Association with Abraham Isaac and Jacob um and I've put the references here we're not going to
5:03
read all of these but I am going to bring out a few aspects of it um because of the association that these places have with Abraham Isaac and Jacob
5:14
it seems to be that the the northern kingdom valued them in some respects for their legitimacy that it lends to them as this northern kingdom that we have these places
5:26
available to us we have these shrines that had these significance and I've already hinted at this but we're going to draw it out more there's very much an aspect to what the northern kingdom is doing here Israel is doing here of the
5:37
sort of well we have the old time religion we have the more pure and ancient form of the worship of Yahweh um and so there's this contrast being built
5:48
here it's easy to see the parallels with that idea of the sort of oldtime religion for those uh I'm sure many of you have heard how many Protestants are abandoning protestantism and and turning
5:59
to Catholicism ISM or to Eastern Orthodox this idea of something that's more ancient more hallowed more Mystic in a way but you don't have to do that you can tour to see the homes of the
6:11
English reformers you can see where Spurgeon live there are pilgrimages absolutely to places youire yeah no and that's that's an
6:23
excellent point because I had that similarly in my notes you don't have to abandon protestantism you can do it well inside Pro protest ISM you can you can pursue the the idols and the um hollowed
6:34
places of our own Heritage I frankly think you can see it also in the the various movements that have sprung up it comes up every 20 years or so there's a new version of the acts two church right
6:47
H the more ancient form of the religion we're going to cast off all of this kick out Fanny Crosby and all of the hymns and everything we're going to go back to the old pure form that we read in Acts chapter 2 you know we're going to get
6:58
back to that that form of the religion um you could see parts of this in the study that they did on the church architecture right the the ideas that come out of that um the the sort of
7:10
stripping things down and making it more pure by getting rid of ornamentation for example um all of the things that are wrapped up in that I sort of joked at the beginning but there are people who go on quote unquote Holy Land tours to
7:23
go see these very places um because it means something well what Amos is drawing out for them here and he's he's going to attack them on it in the the
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message that he's delivering it's not about the land in the places even though for the people of Israel you you would think maybe that's hard to swallow because they're in the promised land aren't they um there's
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more to gilgal bethl and berseba though than merely the the sort of um historical curiosity of it and that's what I want to draw out this morning in
7:57
Genesis and I'm going to run through these quickly again I'm going to try to read every bit of the passages here I've written them up on the board if you want to read them in detail later in Genesis uh bethl relates
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primarily to Jacob um Jacob of course being the one who was later renamed Israel Israel being the national name of this Kingdom right so we're in the Northern Kingdom of Israel
8:21
having a shrine that relates to Jacob's very useful to us twice Jacob comes to bethl First in Genesis 28 um he comes there as effectively a homeless Wanderer
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uh sleeps out in the open on a rock and has that famous dream of the ladder when he awakes he says um the Lord is in this place he seems to recognize at that
8:42
moment the Lord is in this place and then he takes his pillow sets it up as an altar he he sets it up and and anoints it with oil um he actually says in in verse 22 of of
8:55
chapter 28 in Genesis he says this will be God's house he he when he anoints The Rock he consecrates it that way and says this
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will be God's house Jacob returns to bethl um after he goes on his Adventure in padan Iran it's a number of chapters later but in Genesis 35 verses 1-15 we
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see him return and actually that section is preceded by God's command to Jacob to return to bethl he says gather up your family and all the stuff you've got and go back through there go back through
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bethl and build an altar at bethl for me and so while Jacob is there he follows the command gathers his family he goes to bethl and he builds an altar there and he consecrates it and they worship
9:39
god there God speaks to him in that moment while he's there and gives him a promise he gives him the promise of the nation that n the nation will come from him Kings will come forth from him and
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it's at that moment that Jacob is renamed from Jacob to Israel so that happens here at bethl that place has that connection with God's command to the Patriarchs God had spoken there with
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him the other other instances seem to be a vision that he has but there at bethl God speaks to Jacob and renames him Israel um you know we have bethl
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literally betel this is the house of God the house of God um God was there in that moment revealing himself speaking to his people um Jacob arrives at that
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place in the first instance as a sort of man with a past he leaves as a man with a future given this command and this this opportunity and then arrives the second time as Jacob he leaves as Israel
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so in the tradition of the day this was uh an idea or a place of renewing by God God uh Jacob was renewed renamed by God he was
10:50
made effectively a new man made Israel I could go full Southern Baptist preacher on you right now if I wanted to but I'm not going to um but you have that significance in this place I mean this
11:02
is to the credit of the people of Israel this is a real and significant thing that happened there in the history of Israel and the history of God's dealing with his people this is where Israel
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originates um in the tradition of the time and and frankly even through some of the later Jewish Traditions bethl is a a place of the presence and power of God experienced there in a renewing or
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reorienting power it's that IDE a of renewal or uh sort of rebirth is probably stretching it with too much uh postchristian theology but it's that idea of renewing that is that is
11:39
happening there so here in that context again what Amos has to say about it in Amos chapter 5 when he says um don't seek bethl seek me that you may live
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don't seek out bethl he is striking it out for them they are trusting in the place in the Trad tradition and not actually seeking God when he may be found they are
12:04
looking to the place as a well here's a place that we can do this Amos is telling him don't don't do that you're not going to find God there seek him that he may be found he's not in that
12:17
place 1 Corinthians uh 10 11-13 I think most of you are familiar with but I'm going to read it because I think it's useful to us here
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I'm maybe uh hijacking the context slightly since it's referring to an earlier passage in Genesis but he says um don't Grumble as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer these things happened to
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them as an example they were written for our instruction upon the whom the ends of the ages have come therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he
13:05
fall don't be so certain in the places in the things that you hold in what's the right word in Li of God or in his place you hold on to God himself
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and not the places or the images or the people that you think represent
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him to go on sorry I meant to put this here 1 Corinthians 10 11 and 12 I think it's 12 maybe it was 13
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you'll find it Beba Beba is actually associated with all three Patriarchs Abraham comes to the place in Genesis 21: 22 and 23 um he
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hears there what will become sort of the theme of berseba that goes on in the traditions of of the Jews which is actually there are two Pagan Kings well actually it's Pagan King and his Commander there and they say to him God
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is with you in all that you do and that sort of marks Abraham at this specific moment as he goes forth from there and actually this section here in um in 22
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it's right at the end of 22 sorry 21 Genesis 22 then will of course be The Binding of Isaac um so it happens almost right before that section that Narrative
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of of the sacrifice of Isaac God is with you in all that you do Isaac himself comes to visit berseba in Genesis 26 um at berseba he has what is described as a
14:37
vision in the night a night vision of the Lord who announces himself as the god of Abraham and he gives him a promise he promises to Isaac there he says fear not for I am with
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you later many years later in Genesis 46: 1-4 on his way down to uh Egypt at Joseph's invitation uh Jacob actually
15:03
camps at beeba he stops there on the on the journey down and he also receives a vision in the night similarly God reveals himself at that
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time and says I am the god of your father do not be afraid I will go down with you so berseba is tied up with this idea of God being with them as all three
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of the Patriarchs get this message there of the God is with you he goes with you this is that um so if if bethl is the idea of the renewing um beerseba is the
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idea of the continuing presence of God uh empowering his people and protecting them going with them in the things that they have to do a promise of God that he is with them the word of the Lord
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through Amos though seek me don't cross over to over to Beba don't look for me there verse 14 actually later down in
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the chapter he says um he he reverses this in some senses on them he says seek good and not evil that you may live and thus May Yahweh God of
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hosts be with you so don't go to beerseba expecting him to be with you seek evil seek good rather seek good and not evil thus may he be with you he's
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laying it on them let him who thinks he stands take heed the first we hear of Gil he's actually in the conquest of Canan sorry go
16:36
ahead is it only thematically connected because I'm I'm having trouble with the idea that the Israel in the north would go well into the territory of Judah past
16:47
Jerusalem to actually offer sacrifice at that place BBA is an odd one in this instance so it is very much the context of what we're reading seems to indicate
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it's in that idea of the pilgrimages and the idea of significant places to the Patriarchs whereas bethl and gilgal actually have references in other places to sort of cultic activity happening
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there you don't get that in Beba it's a little bit weird in that respect you're not wrong um that it's it's sort of odd in the way it shows up here I think the places are standing not just for the
17:22
actual physical location but the tendency uh of mankind to set up cultic shrines and and then Orient their
17:35
religion to that Shrine as you're talking it reminded me we we went to the cemetery where John Calvin is buried and
17:45
um we were expecting a shrine I was surprised that even Siri couldn't find it when we finally found it it's an 8
17:55
by8 stone that says j c h that just in the ground level with the ground there's a little fence around it now and now there's a modern plaque in the front to
18:06
tell people because there's a lot of JC's died which JC they're talking about but there's no Monument there's no Shrine and I and apparently Calvin
18:17
specified that and it's been honored of course in Geneva they don't really care about Calvin anymore but the idea of you still see as I mentioned
18:30
these pilgrimages reformed Protestants you know salivating over over being near the pulpit where you know some early reformer yeah Hugh laimer or somebody
18:42
preached it's like it's it's a mentality and Bea is a mentality as much as a place right and when the when the kingdoms were alied they would have been
18:53
able to do pilgrimage to Bea but I do think it represents more of an idea that actually plays it we still have it still think there are still those who think Geneva is some type of
19:06
Mecca for right reformed Christians right though I appreciate that very much thank you because I I do think that's what Amos the message that amus is delivering is using it in that way that
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it's we don't have a lot of historical evidence that there were a bunch of pilgrimages happening and they're crossing the border but what he's saying is you know these places where you have this idea this concept that you got it's
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very much a shorthand for the idea of God continuing with you and then he's reversing that again later in the chapter against them as that indictment but you're absolutely right that it's
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it's that idea of the sort of afterglow like if we go to the place or the thing we'll get some measure of the magic if you like that was there at the time right that we we get this this benefit
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without actually having to seek good we'll just go seek Beba you know because God was there he promised to be with us we'll go there instead of actually doing the hard work of of obeying and behaving I will suggest that if you do want to
20:02
seek anything over in Geneva go forada or Rolex or Rolex Mel forget cin yeah well I
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mean while we're here talking about our day and age I mean there are absolutely um meccas to wealth and capitalism I mean there are there are places that are
20:25
revered for their effectively their commercial dominance that's part of the culture in which we live um so yes I mean it's it's worth thinking about um
20:38
was there another question while we were here at Bersa AB did you have your hand up I was just thinking that it seems like these folks
21:31
that mean in the cont of us KN he's unchanging God sure so there's a lot of angles of philosophy to that one of which is God is a spirit and we believe him to be omnipresent so in some senses
21:42
where Jacob is saying God is in this place and I'm going to build a stone here well God's in every place we could set up an altar basically anywhere saying God is here the biggest thing we're going to come to as we move
21:53
through these three is the idea of see how can I put this there's a line from a song that stuck with me which was we're content to pitch our tent when
22:06
the glory is evident seldom do we know the glory came and went he's picking up the motif there of the children of Israel supposed to Camp when the when
22:17
the cloud stops and supposed to move on when the cloud moves God is unchanged and unmoving and yet his Revelation is Progressive and
22:33
Ministry to man expands and so the thing that's coming to them here and I think is also worth knowing for us is they're holding to the smaller things
22:47
rather than following God into what he has called them on to it's almost the message you get out of Hebrews of the you can't go back to Moses you can't go back to these things when Christ has come they're not at that moment yet but
22:59
they are they have a greater message a greater unfolding a greater understanding that when what was given to Abraham Isaac and Jacob so in that context it's not that these places are
23:10
insignificant to them there's an element of the there's a number of these places that we had in the scripture and you'll read like that stone is here to this day most of those are currently lost to us
23:22
um Aaron pointed out in his Deuteronomy study at least a few of the things that are mentioned at the beginning of Deuteronomy are also lost to us we can't follow those landmarks back God could have obscured them from them at this
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time he didn't he chose to leave them in their midst I think it's the conflation of the there's nothing wrong with reading John Calvin there's nothing wrong with going to see Geneva but it's the difference
23:45
between saying I'm going to get power out of God by going to this thing that I'm almost holding up in place of him versus actually seeking God Ariel you had your hand up ask what I'm hearing it
23:57
seems like ative religion where the northern tribe needed legitimacy from their God yeah they had to bypass what Moses had laid down and
24:08
what David had established in Jerusalem yeah so they reducted back to a previous yep Revelation which is both true but like
24:19
you just said not the full Revelation so God is not changed but our knowledge of him has changed yes so in a similar
24:34
bring that forward I think one of the pitfalls that we struggle with is the morality religion where we look at people and say you have to behave in this manner to show you're a Believer
24:45
yeah we're red we're being reductive when we read the further revelation of Jesus Christ through the Apostles showing us the freedom that we
24:55
have in Christ yes no I agree with that I think that's that's a a useful thought because there is that tendency to reduce things down and and again I'd like to make the point
25:06
and I I think Chuck brought it out in several weeks ago Amos is talking to a people who thought at least most of them thought they were doing the right thing before God this is a people who
25:17
understood themselves to be worship worshiping him in some kind of Truth and yet what he's leveling at them is that you're you're putting up all kinds of things in place of actually seeking the
25:53
yeah that's an excellent point because obviously we're two3 of the way through Chronicles you are post the vision of God inhabiting the temple um so they ought to have some
26:04
understanding I think Aon you had your hand up and then Chuck I did um I mean a couple weeks ago I kind of talked about U the fallacy of uh reing God
26:15
inextricably to Creation yeah and to to think that God may only appear or that an appearance of God in one particular spot in creation therefore is somehow as
26:28
eternally enduring as his attributes is is part of what it seems to me that much of much of scripture is militating against to decouple our our natural
26:40
desire to associate god with his creation rather to realize he is he he is unchanging creation is not right what would be good to for Lauren's question
26:51
to look at is is Hebrews 1 um 10 10- 12 and he quoting a Psalm saying you Lord laid the foundation of the Earth in the beginning and the heavens are the work
27:01
of your hands they will perish but you remain they will all wear out like a garment like a robe you will roll them up like a garment they will be changed
27:12
but you are the same and your years will have no have no end yeah well that's helpful thank you Chuck you had your hand up Wonder politically you don't read it in the scripture the narratives but whether
27:24
Israel ought not have sought reunion with Judah yeah I've never really thought about it but as you're talking about this like what what was the answer
27:35
God was talking to them out of Zion not out of Y he wasn't there anymore right and aser says the essence of idolatry is thinking thoughts of God that are
27:45
Unworthy of them tying God to a location even though that location is R Truth and Revelation is it becomes idolatry yes
27:56
and the only solution that the northern the northern kingdom really the only solution that I see that they could have possibly found would be to reunite right the kingom
28:07
yeah no I I agree because I think it's it is evident to us in in the words of of the scriptures that God was not pleased with the separation of the kingdoms um again we've talked a little
28:20
bit about the idea that the message of the prophets is effectively God's commentary on the situation he's looking at there there is very much an argument to be made that that Israel ought to
28:32
have either shot reunion or at least access to Jerusalem to worship god there I think gilgal is actually going to really reinforce this one because when
28:42
we look at gilgal unless there's another question here while we're still at BBA the first we hear about gilgal is its conquest of Canaan it's actually the site where they first Camp after they cross the Jordan in Joshua 4:19 and it
28:55
is there at that site in gilgal that they erect the sort of 12Stone Monument to the the tribes moving into the promised land um that Monument actually
29:06
is is dedicated to the miracle of crossing the river um they that they had the miraculous um Arc of the Covenant kept the the river bottom dry for them that they could walk across and then as
29:17
soon as it was removed the river came back um at gilgal there also in Joshua in the next chapter it's at gilgal before they really begin the conquest
29:27
proper that um the people are effectively reconstituted um Joshua has given the command to make sure that everyone is circumcised and then they actually celebrate the Passover there in the
29:38
promised land that first sort of meal together reconstituting the people as 12 tribes and yet here we are looking at the two and the 10 so the other thing that's happening here though later on in
29:50
1 Samuel I have it written there and there's actually another reference later on that I didn't write up in 2 Samuel in 1 Samuel um Saul is sort of given
30:00
leadership over them but hasn't actually officially been made King there's a fight and a war and Saul and his Warriors deliver Israel and it's actually Samuel Who says let's go to
30:12
gilgal and we'll consecrate him there as king and it's at gilgal that he anoints him and says King over Israel and then you have a very moving speech from from Samuel um basically saying okay we've
30:23
we've established a kingship over Israel everything that Moses said is going to come to you under a king is going to come to you under your kings that's all great but it's it's there at gilgal in 1
30:34
Samuel 11 that Saul's kingship is confirmed by Samuel so there's that element of what they're doing here saying ah aha we have gilgal that
30:46
establish us establishes us as the kingdom as the the kingship there secondly that second reference in in first or 2 Samuel and I forgot to write
30:56
down the specific number um the 10 tribes of the northern kingdom actually have a specific loyalty to Saul's house because it is actually at that moment after the death of Saul when Samuel
31:10
seeks out seeks out David Abner takes ishbosheth Saul's son and anoints him King where else but gilgal and the 10 tribes that then
31:22
Sparks what we typically refer to as a sort of Civil War those 10 tribes follow after after ishbosheth and Abner's leadership starting at gilgal so there is the that
31:34
pressing of what will happen later after Solomon that the 10 tribes are looking for their own leader to be loyal to Saul's house and and in some respect to
31:44
themselves I find that very fascinating because in the history of the Middle Ages you had cities like through all France and they were not the capital of the of
31:58
the Nations but they were the Royal City they were the city of of ordination yeah and as such they became essentially sacred symbol of power yeah
32:08
of SYM power that's that's an interesting observation you're making yeah so to the people of Israel again to sort of talk about the the I think the reason why the Lord is bringing this
32:20
message through Amos against them with these three places in particular is the mindsets that they betray bethl as that idea of renewing or the
32:31
power of God there to remake the idea of uh berseba as that place where God will be with you and finally gilgal is a shrine to The Inheritance and possession
32:42
of the promised land because everything about that whether it's the initial consecration when they move into the promised land or then as kingship over the promised land it's that idea of the
32:52
we have our inheritance this puts the pin in it we are secure here we are we are are established and the word through Amos says what in 5 verse5 gilgal shall
33:05
go into go into captivity and then again down at the end of the chapter in 27 he says uh therefore I will make you go into Exile
33:15
Beyond Damascus says Yahweh whose name is God of hosts so they're saying aha we have gilgal we have the certainty of possession of the land and God says I'm going to take that possession into
33:27
captivity it means nothing to the Lord at this point because of your behavior so what Amos is is being sent to to attack them with is is that very
33:39
much that take heed lest he fall they think they're established they think they stand they think they have these places and these meanings and these powers and God is saying you're evil to
33:49
your core these things will not help you seek me seek good that you may live Abe is it is it a
34:04
fromom Place Jerusalem yeah God I will set I to my home house yeah and so is a continu thing that they're trying to find other place in Jerusalem yeah no
34:16
you're absolutely right and and it is a Hallmark in some sense it's not just the northern kingdom because you can back up in Chronicles and kings and see uh well we'll establish an altar in the South
34:27
and an Al in the north so you don't have to travel so far right that we'll the the people of Israel frankly like most people throughout the
34:37
history of God's revelation are very stubborn in worshiping how they want to worship and that's really what amus is hammering them with is the you know you think about what we what we read in
34:48
chapter 4 and in chapter 3 where he says you know you think you're worshiping you think you're doing these things it's going to come here at the end of chapter 5 he talks about these um in 21 I hate I
34:59
reject your festivals I don't Delight in your solemn assemblies though you offer up to me a mountain of burnt offerings and your grain offerings I won't accept them I won't even look at the peace offerings of your fatlings take away
35:10
from me the noise of your songs I won't listen to the sound of your Harps you're out here saying ah I'm worshiping God and God says no the way you approach God
35:21
matters but I mean just that these places God didn't tell them to put up these Stones they did it on their own Jacob said I'm going to do this him put the stone up kind of but not 100%
35:34
because he's not reprimanded for that but later he's actually told go back there and set up an altar the thing you have to remember when you think about the the progressive revelation of God is
35:45
up until Moses there was not a set worship God in this place you often have moments where the Patriarchs have an encounter and
35:55
encounter and then you almost go back to some of the things that Chuck's talked about out of Leviticus they recognize I've Been In God's Presence I must sacrifice to show my obes in that sense and it's not until
36:08
Moses establishes for them through the word of God in this place at this altar will you worship that's when you have the more the more designated specific come before the the
36:20
altar that God made and consecrated for them well isn't this all kind of distilled into the interview between Jesus and the woman at Samaria yeah M
36:30
gazim you say Jerusalem Jesus says in neither what what kind of worshipers is the father seeking yeah neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem yeah so even
36:41
then as Paul brings out in his letters Jerusalem is being bypassed so that afterward to continue to to rever
36:52
Jerusalem then becomes idolatry yeah right that's an excellent point because that was where I was going to go with this is the we're looking
37:02
specifically because Amos is delivering this message to them he's effectively highlighting the places that they're holding on to the mindset that they're holding on to saying these things keep us safe and God is saying I'm going to
37:13
destroy you we're going to talk at this point it's going to be next week the day of the Lord that in most cases is a visitation on Israel not on their enemies but we'll talk about that um
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you're going to have exactly the same thing though with the later prophets in Judah because judah's going to say well we have Jerusalem we have the temple the Lord won't destroy what he has
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established to be the place where we worship Him and God says my name dwells with my people if my people are Unholy what good is the place is a paraphrasing
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of some of those later messages but that idea that we've already talked about that what the prophets are hammering them with is the way you treat each other matters and the way you approach God matters I would bring out that the
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the the thing that is most useful to us I mean we can criticize Israel all day long it's easy enough but there's there's a message for us in it to be very careful in the way that we approach
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God I mean this is not the same as the the things that we see uh in Samuel or even earlier where you know somebody approaches the the altar wrong and is consumed by the fire that leaps out of
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it but I mean you think about the the things um again to go back to the people that want to go to uh to Catholicism or or um uh Greek Orthodox or whatever it
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is you know oh we want we want incense we want these trappings we want the the vestments we want the elements that make this mystical or the things that that used to be part of religion we miss
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those pieces those sens oriented things the smells the sounds all the stuff and we we just long to have all these pieces of it and God's
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saying you know I I look for worshippers who will approach me in spirit and in
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appin whatever also apply it to our own lives because it sounds very much like practice of writing a date in your Bible or going back to some moment in your life felt experience and putting your
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trust that you know whether it was yeah a real experience or not come to put all your Reliance
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in that's an excellent point yeah holding on to that I signed this card or I wrote down in my Bible the Daye I was I believed or that I was baptized rather than seeking it and I I went through a bunch of the references and I vacillated
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and we're not going to have time because we've got a couple of minutes there's a lot to be said about this idea of seeking the face of the Lord it shows up again and again you'll see it through the Psalms see it in a bunch of the prophets um you'll actually find it in a
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couple of places in some of the speeches that happened in Chronicles but that idea of seeking him where he may be found to borrow from Isaiah that he that the Lord calls on his people to pursue
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him in truth to look for him and not to depend on where he has been evident previously and I would say you can trace that line again to to Erin's Point all the way down through Hebrews of saying
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God still expects his worshippers to approach him where he may be found to look for him it's it's an element of self-examination Are We content in the things that we know or are we actually
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chasing after seeking the heart of God looking for him digging Gabriel isij like that he was in a very desperate moment when Jezebel
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wasting ran right to SI to hide to hide but I guess SE God to seek God
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seek God yeah I don't know where that falls but yeah I hadn't thought about that one um in terms of him seeking Yahweh I think it's a little bit tricky when you
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talk about the prophets who had a more direct relationship in some cases to God but yes I think he did have a moment of the looking for Yahweh or or chasing
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after him AR you had your hand up yeah I was just going to say that based on what you're saying I feel like 5 is a challenge to
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time to spend a lot of time in the New Testament I feel like there's a we've seen it in our church an idea that we've got to get back into the Old Testament because it's been ignored which is not wrong but at
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the same time there's been too much time there we're in danger of reducing our religion to a an older re
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and Revelation it clarifies more obscure things of the past I don't think it's a wrong impulse to say we need to be in the New Testament but I will encourage that there's a balance between the two because there's a lot of Truth in the
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idea that the New Testament is the unlocking or unfolding of the Old Testament what Amos is saying here the idea of seeking God and not trusting into your your places your icons despite
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the fact that those are specific places the truth of it is universal and remains for us and the there is a a a danger or an element of saying well I know the Old Testament better so I can worship God
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better but the writers of the New Testament were so steeped in I mean I would go back here and underline this these things were written for our instruction and so the idea of the um
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you have to have both we cannot be Christians without both parts without both the the the contiguous revelation of God Chuck I I agree with arel fully
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on the one hand they retain their meaning and their their meaning is still essential but we've talked about this before um ever since homiletics Seminary I I do
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struggle with the concept of actually preaching out of the Old Testament it's f with danger as as he's pointed out the danger of returning to a revelation that
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is has been superseded has been expanded and fulfilled yeah but without the Old Testament withouta without without Beth Z has no meaning yeah in their day right
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so the history is still important but you can't go back to it as if that's the current Revelation sure yeah I appreciate that and and I don't disagree at all I part of the thing I'm looking
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at here though is the I'd like to answer as we move forward and hopefully we have already why bother even reading the prophets if we have the full and final
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profit of of Jesus certainly don't think that I say that that this has been negative I feel like is a challenge to the church yeah it's the old right and so we're learning we're absolutely
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learning don't for a minute but I please don't hear me to be disagreeing with your point to say yes Amos would encourage you to be current
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with God yeah absolutely because I mean forgive the business terms there but um you know that is very much what he's saying is and Isaiah will say it very
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explicitly seek him where he may be found it is the idea of of looking to the scriptures and searching out the heart of God and not saying well I have my Systematic Theology all worked out
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I'm good well let's close in prayer uh we're out of time for this morning Our Father we do seek your face we seek your favor your presence with us this
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morning not because of our deserving it but because we desire the thing that you have promised to us that you will be with your people that
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you will show your favor to them that you will indwell us with your spirit that we will have the presence of God in us amongst us that we will be able to
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worship you in spirit and truth so we beg our greater knowledge of you this morning that we would be fully aware of your being with us that we would be
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indwelt by that Holy Fire and able to truly offer you magnification and blessing and glory and honor because you alone are worthy of them so father I ask
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this morning as we assemble Before You In Worship upstairs that you would anoint us again that these songs these sounds these words that we read and it
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and sing together and pray the word preached would all be glorying to you and edifying your church the mission that you have established for us that
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you would do these things with us this morning I ask in Jesus name amen
