0:03
I'm going to resume where we left off in uh Titus chapter 1
0:19
But I do want to uh remind us and hopefully I'm not exasperating anybody, but I'm going to do it anyways.
0:31
I don't know that I have a way to overstate the importance of the fact that Paul starts with this phrase, okay? That he starts his address to Titus
0:42
and I think full in the knowledge that more than just Titus would read this. that the way he begins his letter is to call himself a bonds slave of God,
0:52
apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness in the hope of eternal life which God who cannot lie promised long
1:04
ages ago, but at the proper time manifested his word in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our savior for
1:14
the faith of those chosen for knowledge of the truth accordance with godliness. This is why he took up his pen. Okay. And it is in that spirit frankly that I
1:26
think we do all the things that we do. This phrase if you like could encapsulate the entire purpose of us being here.
1:38
being here. Uh I framed this study when I began. Yeah, I should have found the mark before I started.
1:57
From the outset, I've called this the law of liberty, despite the fact that if you're paying attention, the books that I've outlined to go through don't ever actually use that phrase. The two times it appears are in other books, but maybe
2:07
we'll get there. Um, this idea, this what he says right here is the basis for this idea of the law of liberty, for the faith of those chosen,
2:19
for the increase of the knowledge of the truth which is in accordance with godliness. That's the core. That's the guiding principle of the law of liberty,
2:30
of liberty, the increase of faith, the increase of the knowledge of the truth. These are the things that motivate Paul in every respect. I would assert firmly if you go back to Thessalonians where we have been
2:41
that you will find this same attitude there. If you go on to you go into Timothy, you go into even James or Jude or some of the other places that we
2:51
either will go or have had a chance to reference to, you will find this attitude for the faith of the chosen. That is the reason that we do these things. It is because of the
3:02
manifestation of his word. In my Bible, it's capitalized. it's capitalized. That's why this ministry has been given.
3:13
Okay. So, come then to this phrase that we've picked up with this this thing that we're examining, the appointing of elders in every city.
3:23
Just as with everything else we've talked about, it is under that heading of for the faith, for the increase of the knowledge of the truth. It is in that spirit that we examine or discuss
3:34
this thing. It is in the unity of purpose for the faith for the encouragement of the body foremost for the glory of God that the elders and the body labor together. Okay. Um,
3:47
I want to talk about the eldership here a little bit and I recognize that I'm jumping ahead somewhat, but it's hard for me to
3:58
give the appropriate uh guard rails or caveats if you like without skipping to some of the other places before we get further on into Titus. So, we're going to probably cover this ground twice
4:09
somewhat now and more in depth as we move forward in the book. But I want to talk about this because we talked about this idea last week of the appointing of elders. And we looked at a couple of examples where we see that there is a
4:20
command both here in Titus and also in first Timothy. There is a command to appoint elders. Um we don't have a clergy. That's what I'm
4:31
getting to. We don't have a clergy. We view elders. We talked about this word. We talk we view elders as those who are given a particular role in the church a particular office and I do believe
4:43
firmly that it is an office and we will talk about that as we move forward. An officer of the church
4:53
uh we've been reading the elders and Aaron and I have been reading together and and discussing um Alexander Venet's pastoral theology. He makes the point early on in there that the idea of
5:03
clergy, the idea of a priesthood to whom you can entrust these things, oftentimes people look on that as a view of liberty, as a like, well, I'm I will be free by giving this away to you. You go
5:15
before God and do this. And Venet points out that not only have you robbed liberty from the people, you rob liberty from the officers by doing that. It ruins both things. We don't have a
5:26
clergy. So it is in this unity of purpose, unity of spirit, unity of understanding. And I want to go now to the classic passage on unity. Yes. Sorry. Go ahead.
5:41
Yeah. Yeah. The idea of clergy is the idea that someone stands in your place. Someone not you stands in your place before God. Okay. Okay. So the idea of a
5:52
clergy would be that you go to the classic Catholic priesthood if you like. That's maybe the most cemented form of clergy that we have in which there's
6:03
literally rankings, titles, accretions of the idea that their authority overrules your ability to read the scripture. Okay? and also that they are
6:14
those who go and intercede on your behalf to the point that in certain aspects of Catholicism you're not even allowed to. The priest has to do that for you.
6:24
Whereas scripture tells us that the entire body is a royal priesthood. Most people are familiar with that phrase. It is an idea that distinguishes the new covenant from the old covenant
6:36
in which there was a priesthood that was a select group of people who did in fact do these things on behalf of the people. Now in the new covenant the people have the the authority actually and the right
6:49
and the liberty to go before God in prayer in praise in reading of the word. those things are there. Which gets you to the question that I'm trying to to
7:00
aim at here, which is what then is the authority of the elder? If all of this is true of the people, why elders?
7:43
Yeah. Um, my understanding of the word cleric is that it would be equivalent to the word priest. But maybe your understanding is more nuanced than that. I don't I understand it as a word basically equivalent to the word priest. And so cleric or clericalism is the idea
7:56
that that there are officers who do well I'll put it this way because this is where we're headed. Oftentimes there is an idea and this is this is the thing that is uh perhaps
8:08
deadly easy for most of us to do which is let somebody else do the ministry. Okay. The priest is the one who ministers. In fact we even call officers
8:19
in the church ministers. And yet we are told in the scripture that the work of the elder is to equip the body for the work of ministry. The
8:30
body ministers. body ministers. There are elders who guide and direct. You had your hand up. You mentioned intercession. Historically the essence of clerical
9:11
Um, depending on where you want to go in history with this, and I didn't intend this primarily as a history lesson, but we can. Um to to your point about sacraments, there are arguments in various places in history about who is allowed to baptize, for example, who is
9:22
allowed literally to put their hands on and baptize another person. And most people come to the conclusion that it is necessary, that is the officers of the church who do that. Historically, that happens very early and it happens very
9:33
often. Um I don't see that in scripture personally that it's required for the elders to do it. In fact, you may have noticed that the last several baptisms, it's been the parents who have done
9:59
teaching elder. I think so. It may depend on which particular branch you're in, but I think that's generally
10:15
So, the point I'm getting at here is we reject that view. And I would challenge if you want to hold on to that view, which I'm not sure anybody wants to hold on to that view, find it for me in scripture and we'll talk about it because I don't see it.
10:28
However, the other side of that coin is the idea that the elders then have no authority. Okay, the elders are only here sort of voluntarily. The idea of term elders,
10:40
for example, is a thing that happens. It's a thing that happens quite a lot in Baptists. uh denominations but not exclusively. So the idea that you know you do this for a time because yeah we need somebody to
10:50
stand up here and teach and and fill the hour. Somebody's got to stand up here and talk but you know your authority is sort of whether or not we like you. Um
11:02
what I want to dig into is this is what does the scripture say about this and the appointing of elders? because I said last week and I maintain it to be
11:13
true and I'm happy to take the questions or the comments if anybody wants to raise their hand here. But as far as my reading in in it and digging through it and I did go read a bunch of Alexander Stout or reread a bunch of Alexander
11:25
Straout's book to see if he found things that I didn't and his testament is that um there's no instruction that we can read about the perpetuation of either the elders or the deacons. meaning no
11:37
instructions saying here's how you make the next generation of them. Okay, we read here appointing elders. We read in uh first Timothy appoint elders. Both
11:47
cases that I think are evangelists being told to do that as the churches are established. We read in Acts um the idea that some of those churches apparently had elders were not told that
11:59
they were appointed that somehow those elders were there. Maybe they were appointed, maybe they were not. You can go to Acts six and read where the congregation is told to pick from among themselves what is typically called the
12:10
seven the deacons that may be worth considering and we will talk about that this morning but those are also deacons and again Stra points out there's no instructions on
12:22
how the next set of deacons comes about just that one okay so what I'm trying to do is take the parts of scripture that I do have where we do have instructions
12:33
given to us and formulate the theory here. Does that make sense? Because I don't I don't have anything to say to you that's not in scripture.
12:49
4. Most of you probably know this for a couple of reasons. First part of this thing often gets thrown around as the um you know, great here's passage on unity. everybody just
13:01
get along. get along. And later we have uh a section where he lists off what seemed to be officers or particular roles in the church. But
13:11
there's a word in here that I want us to notice in particular as we read here. So I'm going to read the se first several verses of Ephesians chapter 4. And I know you're always in danger when I
13:22
start a sentence with a therefore, but I'm going to start at the therefore. Therefore, I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy
13:33
of the calling with which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.
13:46
There is one body and one spirit just as also you were called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father who is over all and
13:59
through all and in all. But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. Therefore, it says when he ascended on high, he led
14:10
captive a host of captives and he gave gifts to men. Now this expression he ascended what does it mean except that he also had descended into the lower
14:20
parts of the earth. He who descended was he himself who also ascended far above all the heavens so that he might fill all things.
14:30
all things. And he gave hold that thought. He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some
14:40
as evangelists, some pastor teachers for the equipping of the saints, for the work of service or could read ministry depending on your translation to the
14:51
building up of the body of Christ until we all attain to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the son of God to a mature man to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
15:04
Okay, we could keep reading. It's very easy to keep going and there are certainly things there that help shed light, but I want to hold on to this. This is the passage that is often the
15:14
hel often held up as the passage of unity. And yet he makes it very clear here that each one of these roles is a gift of God to the congregation. It is a
15:24
gift of God to the people. Again, go back to where I started from this. for the faith of the chosen. Okay? For the increase of the knowledge of the truth. That's why he gives God gives these
15:37
things that his church might have everything that it needs. Look again at first uh first chapter of Titus where he states clearly
15:48
states clearly set in order what remains appointing elders in every city as I directed you. Okay? necessary Okay? necessary that the church have these gifted to
15:59
them. In Acts chapter 20, I think it's verse 28, uh, when he calls the elders from Ephesus. This was alluded to, I think, by Chuck at the end of last session. And Aaron, I think you also had
16:11
a reference of, um, the the elders in Israel being told that that was these were given to them or it was God who appointed them. Um in Acts chapter 20,
16:24
Paul states to the elders that the Holy Spirit appointed you overseers. Okay, so hold on to this idea that elders are the gift to the congregation.
16:34
But I want to ask this question because I don't think that the answer is nothing. What is the role of the congregation in the choosing of elders? Because it's not nothing.
16:47
Okay. Unless you want to answer nothing and we can talk about that. Is there is there anybody who thinks that the congregation has zero role? Just appoint my elders and be done with it.
17:25
right? Yeah, I appreciate that. Right. It doesn't it doesn't just happen. Um and and this this gets to the question that we have talked about in various ways which is which is well God appoints but none of us have
17:37
seen the finger of God coming down and saying pick that one. Okay. So it's a both and that God is at work here. The Holy Spirit is appointing and yet we work and labor in these things. Abigail
18:49
No, that's that's an excellent reference because that's exactly what I was going to say. the idea that these men in that passage and I think frankly in some of the other passages that we can read also in the New Testament there was a recognition of those who have leadership
19:02
quality. That's part of what Paul is laying out here in Titus. He lays out in Timothy also is those qualifications as you're examining people as you're thinking about this because you will be
19:12
thinking about this as you are thinking about this. Here are the qualifications to bear in mind as you recognize what God has given.
19:41
Um yeah, the the the replacement of the 12th apostle with the drawing of Lots is a fascinating case, particularly if you go back to some of the precedent that you have in the Old Testament of other people being chosen by lots. Um, not least of which is Jonah being found out
19:52
by lots. Put your hand up. It wasn't entirely by Lot. There were qualifications. That's true. That's true. Had to be someone who had been with them from the beginning. So wasn't entirely like anybody in the
20:07
right? That's true. There was a limit to the poolification to those who had heard all of the teaching, who had walked all of that walk. That's that's an excellent point. Um, I'm not proposing that we're going to
20:18
get the dice out. Um, I don't know exactly what to tell you on that other than I suspect perhaps the
20:30
trust even the word faith in that process might be more than some of us can handle. It might be more than I can handle. I don't know. Um, I don't see that repeated at least or
20:42
commanded. Again, this is the thing that makes this particular discussion somewhat challenging because as I've searched this out and I've looked to to sus out for myself what is it that
20:55
scripture says about this, it actually says very little about the specifics of the process. So, I'm trying to be careful to say what I
21:05
think we read in scripture here and we will try to bear it out with the references as we move forward. But I said last week that the elders are those
21:16
who are given um guidance, given stewardship. We read here in Titus um we read in other places shephering that idea that they are guiding that they are given certain direction of the church
21:28
and those kind of things. Why would you not ask the elders? The elders are described in 1 Timothy 5 as being able to rule or rule well. They should take a hand in guiding the selection of the
21:40
elders. So I would say the congregation fed on the word, clear on the qualifications that are laid out for us in scripture,
21:52
in scripture, knowing these things because the congregation is expected to know and to see and to look should be actively observing, eagerly looking, confirming
22:02
God's gift to the church in this. It's not really either or. I don't see it in scripture as either or. And I am happy to take any comments or questions here
22:13
because what I see is that both the elders in their role as guiding and the congregation in their role as the sheep who are eager uh the phrase berean comes
22:24
up digging in to see what is here should also recognize and see and look just as we have the reference in numbers. those men who were already recognized as
22:37
having eldership authority or having a leadership capacity. leadership capacity. But that's not the only qualification. And I want to move on at some point here in Titus and get to the qualifications.
22:47
But I don't want to leave this discussion before we get there. A first and then and then I think that was a world
23:16
worship. So in some sense an apostle like point. Does that apply to us today?
23:51
years and studied and studied the context is different. That is a fair point and that is a very fair question that we're trying to here is by whom? Right. Exactly. The the question here is
24:03
the appointment by whom? Um or I would actually even go so far as to say is appointing the right word exactly because I will I agree with you here
24:13
that we have both Titus and Timothy are the two places where I read that phrase and those are evangelists deputized by Paul to do just that. what I don't read clearly in scripture and I think we can
24:25
make a case for a particular method but I want to have this conversation out amongst us because this is the the venue in which to do so is okay we now live
24:35
2,000 years on with a heritage with an understanding also with a certain challenge of the accretion of clericalism creeping back into the church other outside influences
24:48
I mean what do we do on the basis of scripture for this this is the question to sus out. Um, Elie, you had your hand
25:29
Holy Spirit leads people. Yeah. And so it is with elders and
25:44
from the congregation to say that this person's gifted. I think I can fully agree with that statement and that and that's what I'm uh aiming at here is the point of all of this is not some
25:56
kind of opposition between well the elders are going to have their faction and the congregation's going to have their faction and we're going to put them to a vote and we're going to figure out who wins this election. The point of all of this is that the congregation and
26:07
the eldership in all things not least of which the perpetuation of the officers are striving together to do what is right according to the guiding of the spirit. Right? That striving together
26:19
through the ministry of the spirit and the qualifications that we read in the word that both congregation and elder together are recognizing here are those who will be suited to do this work among
26:30
you. Does that make sense? I think I can fully agree with your statement there. Elie, you had your hand up and then I'll get to
26:47
Yeah. Right. Right. So, you know, um there there is a a statement in first Timothy that we can look at at some point on the idea of dealing with elders
26:58
who are not doing what they're supposed to do. But I think sometimes the phrase uh you know uh that the Bereans were were those who were searching the scriptures to see if these things were
27:08
so gets an idea that like we're we're trying to flunk you Paul. We were digging through the scriptures to figure out where you were wrong and ah we couldn't find anything. I guess you were right. No, it's it's it's the excitement of going this word, this thing given to
27:22
us, we're striving together towards that end. That's the the phrasing or the the idea that's behind all of this. James
28:21
Yeah. Um I certainly take the the point there that we live in a context where democracy is is very much ingrained in our thinking. our thinking. I guess I'll raise the question here as part of that though is um you know at
28:33
least in terms of what we see well I mean we don't know if they took a vote but we see in in Acts chapter 6 that they selected from among themselves those who would be the deacons. So the
28:44
question of whether or not selecting in that way is actually invalid is a question to be sorted. Um and I'll say it this way. Okay. I mean, Alexander
28:54
Strak in his book points out he thinks um one he's obviously he's very against clergyism or clericalism is the right phrase to use there. But he points out
29:05
that the church neither needs nor should have any more trappings on its government than the eldership and the deacons and the congregation. That's what we find in the scripture and that's
29:15
what should be there. He seems to indicate in his own thinking anyways that one of the reasons for that is there's a certain amount of flexibility and one of the reasons why perhaps it's not spelled out in great
29:26
detail is that it is intended to be somewhat flexible depending on context or background. Abe made the point that these people at least as we can read a great deal of the people on cree were
29:37
probably not Jewish. there was a large Jewish population there. But he makes the caveat that the cretins have a particular proclivity towards lying and other forms of bad behavior. So you have
29:49
a group of people who maybe did not have the Jewish heritage of having an eldership in place in some ruling capacity and yet at the same time is
30:00
voting the way to do those things. Is that the form of of government that we find or the way to do that? I think I saw Abe's hand first then we come back
30:32
what does the congregation think that is true it is a way to find out thoughts of to the congregation. I I don't dispute that idea. Abigail, I saw your hand up.
31:31
Well, that's not that's not they are ends of a spectrum. Well, so here's here's I I'll say this and then call on Chuck here. I agree to
31:43
the extent that the question of the authority of the elder or even the office in the church does relate to the selection and perpetuation of it. I
31:54
don't see a way to discuss it without also examining the idea of authority there. Two thoughts that have been the last years. Oneus
32:33
So there in lies the whole for me. The reason that feedback is so necessary is to make sure at least she also hear the voice of nominees in
32:48
terms of the gospel in terms of the word of God that God has given us. My sheep hear my voice. I
33:06
also make their voice that's the congregation but the other is that the elders are those who will give an account an account and I don't think the account is
33:19
idle person the account is nearly the integrity of the el's teaching very much rightly handling the word of God.
33:30
But and I've tried to say this many times as as I've gotten older. I think succession is an important thing. The idea of
33:41
second Timothy 2:2 that to me is apostolic succession. It's not the authority of an apostle by any means, but it is the authority of the word of God faithfully studied,
33:53
faithfully taught, faithfully preached. I think it's incumbent upon the elders to do everything possible to see that that is generationally
34:07
Right? So those two things I think bring in the congregation the sheep must hear the voice but also the fact that these are men who by God's grace will give an account
34:20
and I think succession is an important part. That's that's my opinion. I can't chapter in verse and say that but that's what is on my heart in terms
34:30
of future. Thank you. I appreciate that comment. So it is succession
34:42
is a succession of the teaching office right? It is the idea of of perpetuating the officers of the church. No not so much the officers of the church. The succession is of the
34:53
ministry of the word of God. There are no there's no apostolic succession in the sense that the Roman Catholic Church holds it that will bring in authority of
35:04
clergy which we reject. But I also reject the Anabaptist
35:16
teaching in their congregation. I don't think So just to read 2 Timothy uh verse uh chapter 2 verse two out loud. I think
35:27
most of you are familiar but he says uh the things that you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. The idea
35:37
that the that the in part the recognition of those who are able to continue the ministry of the word in the church begins with the earlier labors of the elders in teaching
35:49
the church and that some among them some of the men in particular will be gifted by God with the ability to continue the teaching. Okay, to continue to unfold the word.
36:02
And so the question of uh sort of either or I I guess I I object in some ways to this oppositional uh idea necessarily,
36:13
but I want to read a quote that I found um while I was preparing for this of um from a congregational theologian. His
36:24
his background and his thought was purely congregational. So, just as a as somebody on that end of things, he
36:36
and this is RW Dale, who I'm not particularly familiar with, but he's apparently reputed to be a a congregational uh theologian in his book, A Manual of Congregational Principles.
36:46
Congregational Principles. Nor does the New Testament give us the impression that the authority of bishops, elders, and pastors was derived from the church, or that their office was created by the church. The church determined what men should fill the
36:57
office, but the office was instituted by Christ. The church determined who should exercise the authority. The authority comes from him. In electing its officers, the church acts not for
37:09
itself, but for Christ. It appoints the men whom he has chosen, and it appoints them to exercise an authority which he has conferred.
37:23
Any objections or comments? Well, it goes all the way back to the idea that God has put in place gifts to his church and that the role of the
37:36
body, elders included, is to be eagerly examining and thinking ahead and preparing for men to be able to step into that role and to teach. that he is making a
37:50
distinction uh between the office and the man who fills it pointing out that God has established in his word very firmly. I mean there is no question I
38:00
there's many many places where the office of elder is established. We're going to talk about a lot of those, not least out of Titus, but that eldership is a is an office to be filled. And I
38:12
will continue to maintain as we go forward here. Again, I can't do it all in one Sunday school, but that is for the ministry of the word. Okay? So, the office exists.
38:53
Yeah. Yeah. I mean the the the the point and part of the discussion here is uh this is what I read in Titus and so what do we do with
39:05
how do we move forward with it? How do we how do we go you know what what is the role here and yes it relates to our current position Erin
39:36
And the spirit is the one who chooses our job, right? And I think there's a lot of evidence
39:56
um already established leadership. So that was an agreement among many church
40:17
there's a sort of agreement that we must come to. come to. I think agreement is a great word. That's that's exactly I think what we read here in scripture and and what I would like to see us get to is
40:29
agreement. The the point of part of this discussion is frankly as I stand up here examining the word and trying to tell you what the word says. The mechanism
40:39
is not explicitly clear to me in terms of how that's spelled out. So yes, to come together as an agreement again to back all the way up to where I started here, I would hope that all of us
40:52
assembled here have this in mind. The faith of those chosen, the knowledge of the truth according to godliness. That's what we want. We see again and again in scripture, not
41:02
least out of Ephesians chapter 4, but over and over again, the idea that the body and the elders are those components of the congregation where working together, building up the whole in love.
41:13
That's the aim. That's the goal. That's the desire of a proper functioning body. I think there is a perhaps a a a degree in which the mechanism is not spelled
41:25
out to an nth degree because the body needs to walk according to the wisdom that the spirit gives. You have your hand up.
41:50
I think it's a valid question to ask to what level of agreement I will say personally that level of agreement is 100% I would not be
42:08
I don't I think that's challen challenge that we're dealing with is to preserve unity and harmony with moving forward together.
42:20
But what does that really look like? I can I can speak for Mark, I think, in saying that agreement is absolutely what we're seeking.
42:31
It's like a democracy, you know, do we have a vote? I think if we realize in our elections, just as an analogy, a very small percentage of eligible
42:42
voters actually vote and then whoever gets 51% wins, right? That's partly a mandate. Yeah. We're not looking for 51%.
42:53
That's not the point. The point is we want to know what's on the mind and hearts of the congregation and then work toward agreement.
43:05
to the fullest extent possible, right? But is is it fully possible? Again, I
43:18
thank you for that. Um, this is, this is, you know, this is in no small part why the elders have asked repeatedly that everybody fill out the papers so that we have the view of the congregation. um
43:28
because they have no desire nor do they condescend to you to the point of saying here are your new elders. So please give that feedback. I want to again I'm
43:40
trying to stick to the word as much as I can but I do want to just point out something here from um the Fellowship Bible Church Constitution which we have I don't know if you knew
43:50
that we have one ratified 1981 which predates both current elders elderships. Um this is what it says. So I'm going to
44:01
read this out for you. um selection. um selection. Elders of the church shall receive their office by appointment citing Acts 14:23
44:13
and Titus 1 vers5. The first appointment of the elders shall be done by Fellowship Bible Church of Little Rock, Arkansas, which was the planting church
44:23
of this body. Thereafter, they shall be appointed by the incumbent elders. Additional elders shall be appointed by vacancy as vacancies occur or need arises. Each
44:35
nominated elder shall be ratified by the membership over 18 years of age. The member shall indicate by signed witness willingness or unwillingness to follow
44:45
the leadership of the nominated elder citing Hebrews uh chapter 13 verse 17 submitting to your elders. If evidence of unwillingness to follow occurs, the incumbent elder shall
44:56
determine the validity of the objections. If it is determined that the nominated elder is unqualified to serve, the nomination shall be set aside. The appointed elder shall be ordained before the church by the laying on of hands,
45:07
citing 1 Timothy 5. that I believe is as close as we're going to come to what I read in scripture in terms of
45:20
guidance from your elders who stand in thatstead already and of voicing of the opinions of the church, the thoughts of the church, the desire to reach an agreement there. That is the
45:33
method that we are in and trying to follow. Jenny
45:56
Uh it says willingness or unwillingness to follow the leadership of the nominated elder.
46:09
Uh, it could be taken as a vow. Yeah, it could be taken as a vow. So, um, I don't know. I don't know. Uh, I don't have a closing thought here for
46:20
this part necessarily, and I'm still on page one of four pages of notes, so
46:34
the prosecution rests. No. Um certainly I would I would ask everyone to be in prayer for this because it is absolutely our desire to do this in in agreement and in glor glorifying
46:45
God by the way we do it. I know we're I know we're over time and I do appreciate very much everybody's thoughts on what we're doing, but I think because of what we're doing right now in the church,
46:56
this is all right in front of us very I do want to humbly request that
47:14
respect the position of Mark and myself as elders. that we're not, no matter what we do, no
47:25
matter how we do it, it's very unlikely, it's impossible that we will be able to avoid men who have the same level of experience as we do.
47:37
That's not possible. But the passage of time what we're doing is incredibly important
48:03
this move in this direction said that we're not interested in moving this direction all in agreement as far as markets
48:21
Yes. Are listening. Are listening. Yes. And now we will close in prayer because we do desire the spirit's guidance in all of these things. Let's
48:35
Our Father, we recognize our our desperate need of your wisdom for us that we are a a people made of dust,
48:47
prone to the the sins of the flesh. We desire that you would be among us and be with us that we might be those distinguished by our unity and our love
48:58
and our building up of the faith. That in all respects we would do things in the right order according to what we see in scripture. That you will be glorified
49:08
in all that we do in all that we say. As we assemble together to call upon your name, we ask that you would be with us. Anoint these praises that they might be truly accepted before your throne as a
49:19
as a good and glorious sacrifice. We desire to see you high and lifted up. We ask these things in Jesus name. Amen.
