0:03
All right. Um, I'm going to try to move us on to the next section here in Titus.
0:20
Make sure my microphone's on. Here I am on. All right. Not forgetting, as we talked about last week, the footing on which Paul states this whole case here as he gives his introduction and the idea that these things are for the faith
0:32
of those called knowledge of the truth according to godliness in hope of eternal life. It is to this end and in this vein that he gives these instructions. And uh you know a lot of
0:44
times Titus gets called a pastoral epistle along with first and second Timothy as it gives instructions to elders and for elders and about elders. But these are not the only things that
0:54
are here. But we are certainly in the midst of a section where he is talking about those things. And we will also be leaning a little bit on uh the instructions that we read in in Timothy. Similar vein. Paul's instructions to
1:08
both are very much in the same line. So, I'm going to read 5 through9 this morning as we begin. And I'm going to read from the New American Standard, but we will be talking about some of these words
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specifically because there's a number of these that have um varied interpretations, shall we say. [clears throat] For this reason I left you in cree that
1:30
you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you. Namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife,
1:40
having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine,
1:51
not pugnacious, not fond of sorted gain, but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, holding fast to the faithful word, which
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is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able to both exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict. On the surface, this seems relatively
2:13
straightforward. Um, I don't know if any of those in particular stood out to you as we run through the the words there.
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the main purpose here, he says it twice, is that the elder should be above reproach. That is the fundamental aspect it seems here that Paul is after that the elder is above reproach which has the idea uh both in and out of the
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community. The elder in a lot of ways is a um a um well Paul doesn't state it here but we are going to bring it by inference but the elders often end up being a frontman
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for the church do they not? There's an element in which the primacy of place ends up being a particular face in the
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community. Paul doesn't seem to indicate that the elders need to be the front-facing part of the church, but he does say above reproach. Did you have your hand up? I've every time I've read that um
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is any man above reproach? I think it's kind of like we talked last week about you know you ever get 100%
3:30
right someone like David in the Psalms professing his own righteousness but yet you know right no man is righteous I just wonder what your thoughts were
3:40
because I think that above is a somewhat subjective yard stick I mean obviously I think It rules out
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known sins, immoralities, crimes Yeah. Bounce checks. I mean, whatever. But where does it go, right? How deep do you
4:02
cut? Yes. Um I I appreciate the question and and and in some ways, this is the crux of what I'm wanting to dig into today. I read out of the New American Standard, but in my reading of this um the I think
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the one that they're translating in the New American Standard in mine says devout. But the word here is is literally um sorry this one literally
4:26
holy in the Greek. Um it's a word I mean it can mean pious. It can mean things like that. And in fact, in the Greek, there's at least three words that we often have
4:36
in our translations as holy. This is somewhat distinct from the holiness that we often use as sanctified or set apart. Um, but it is a word that literally
4:47
means holy. Um, this is used in the the uh section in the scriptures where it says, "You will not allow your holy one to see decay." Exact same word. Okay. So,
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that one made the hair on the back of my neck go up as I was going through here going like I mean none of these are part I mean these ones maybe are a little easier than some but that one I went hold on a minute um also above reproach
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so I can't tell you I think it might have been every commentator I looked at for this one quoted the who is sufficient for these things um and not without reason right not without reason this is
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this is a challenge challenge um and it is a challenge in the sense that we are all human and sinners who are called to these things. these things. It has been the history of the church
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has been taken a different way and that is above approach. Yes. Yes. And and in particular I think you've highlighted this in a couple of
5:47
places. This remains the theory of the Catholic Church, which is that a priest cannot be convicted or indicted of these things because ordination itself puts
5:58
them above reproach. I don't know that we struggle with that one amongst ourselves. I'm I don't necessarily want to admit of a uh direction that far off. The idea of
6:11
above reproach, I think it's quite evident uh here. There's on the one hand these things are a little bit self-evident. You can read through this list and you go, "Okay, great. A man of good character."
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Okay. But on the other hand, there are particulars here and these particulars are actually repeated in uh first Timothy and given details here of it. Um
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so I do want to spend a little bit of time looking at these things in in particular. And he does repeat the phrase twice. Um above reproach. He says it here um namely if any man is above reproach. And then later on he says
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um the the overseer in verse 7 must be above reproach as God's steward. And then he goes on to give some more qualifications. So he's clearly got in mind here uh in in two senses the idea
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that this person is not open to charges of uh of uh things that would defame the body. I think is the way that I take this. I saw
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this hand first and then we'll come back over here. over here. related to
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I do think that's a significant part of it is the idea of reputation. Um Jenny, you had your hand up.
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That that is an excellent point and something that I've got in the notes here for us to touch on which is um ideally this is true of all believers. There's actually nothing on this list
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other than this section which I have down here as its own piece. It is mixed in. I have reordered these. You may have noticed um we'll talk about that. But
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the section the idea of being able to reprove being able to teach the word and also to reprove those I think this is a particular qualification as we will read in several places necessary for the
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elder not called on all believers. The rest of these things are in a sense good behavior that we read in various parts of the scripture not confined solely to
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the idea of the elders. [clears throat] So that's a a reasonable point. But the idea of being above reproach, the idea that this is um well, you think of the
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other places where Paul says um you know, he lists off various sins that you were drunkards, um thieves, liars, various things. Such were some of you,
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right? The idea is that those who are going to be in the eldership really shouldn't be infamous for these things that again to Aeron's point I think both inside and
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outside of the body they should have a reputation that is upright. Does that make sense? make sense? I was just wondering concerning what Paul said.
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strikes me that in the culture as he describes it in these these would not be the men who would get the most No, if all are liars, evil beasts, lazy and
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the testimony of that poet is true, then they have to be urged to listen to these kinds of men. Seems to me that the
10:00
scrupulous in even his private affairs and they have to be urged to listen to that sort of man. I don't I would wonder if it's really
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any different for us. I do take the point that it is somewhat common to human nature. Um, I think you can also highlight that, but we're going to flip over in a second and look at
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where it is in Timothy because Timothy's is a slightly different context. Um, he's not specifically there in cre for these things and is given a very very similar list. There's minor differences,
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but a very very similar list. And to your point, the idea is that typically those I mean we see this phrase um certainly if you've ever watched gladiator, but you see this phrase happen all the time or at least I do in
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current discussion of politics like those who want to be in charge should not be allowed to be in charge because they are greedy for gain. Okay, they are seeking power and influence in these
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things. And there's a sense in which what Paul is saying is go find those people who are above reproach, who are not disqualified by these things. And when you find a couple such people, appoint them as elders. Um it's not
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particularly a thing that well we have the phrase that says whoever desires to be an overseer desires a noble work. And yet on the other hand you have uh James's not let not many of
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you become teachers for as such you will incur a stricter judgment. So, it is um again on the surface it seems somewhat self-evident but on on second review it it becomes somewhat thorny in the sense
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of how how do you do this? How do you even find such a track? Ariel, I wonder if we're hindered in our understanding because understanding because our western individualized understanding
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of our faith often would look at those positives. self control self control and say well if a man doesn't have these
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attributes he's not a believer he's failed to be a believer
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but if that's the list that Paul's exorting look for presumably there were men in the church who suffered that [snorts] didn't have all of and they would be passed over for Yeah. But not put out of the church,
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right? They were still believers. Yeah. Struggling with this body of flesh. So that raises a point and I will I will say from my reading, it's not it's not limited to Baptists. Um it's it accrus
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fairly early in the writings the idea that like Jenny made the point theoretically this distinguishes all believers. were were um exhorted again and again to not be drunkards, to be
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soberminded, to be self-contained, not quick to anger, various things of that nature. But to your point, that ends up meaning that people are very quick, as he says in uh second Thessalonians, to
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get into other people's business and go, "See, look at you. You've got these vices. You're not even a believer." Okay? And and again, not confined to Baptists. um happens over and over again that you come up with a list of traits
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and you go see if you don't do these then you're just straight out not a believer. Well, coming back to this and and this is a very excellent point here that I want to hold on to for a minute is
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liberty does not give us the license to sin. Okay, it's not that. But it is a liberty that says the
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struggle, the things that we're going through, the the realities of the situations out of which we are called do not disqualify us from following Christ.
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Okay? We are aiming for these things. We are walking towards these things. I was thinking about it this morning. You can't compel somebody to be free.
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You can't make somebody be at liberty. There is a sense of self-realization or spirit-led realization really in this
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context. Um I think I saw another hand or a question mark. No. Okay. So I take your point there. Um but I do think that that the point you've made there is true
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which is in the churches especially here because we are at the very beginning of the church. um they didn't have centuries of builtup
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how do you want to say codes of conduct I mean you do remember however that there were there were a significant Jewish diaspora in cree so they would have known the Mosaic law they would
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have known even versions of the phariseaic law would have come to them the idea that there is good conduct and uprightness okay so it's not entirely
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divorced from our own situation and yet at the same time there would have been many coming in from outside many as Aaron pointed out in the specific culture of Cree who would have been
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leading a lifestyle where yeah being a liar being greedy um I'm in a port town and all of my neighbors are greedy if I'm not greedy and I'm not cutthroat I'm
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not going to make it in my business okay that kind of thing was in that culture among them for sure Abigail I'm kind of struck by just how practical these things
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this applies to all believers but it seems like seems like what is required to be a faithful leader in the in the I appreciate that point very much. Um,
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and it it definitely does tie into where dad was last week. Um, because you're right. Um, this is not you go take an MDA program. This is not the list
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they're going to put on the board. Um, also what's not in here is is also an interesting question of what's not in this list of dos and don'ts. Chuck, tie the two together. This is Christian
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Yeah. But they should be somebody and say here's an example of what what we should all I do want to jump over I I thank you
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because I think that's right um uh one of the commentators I think was George Knight in his uh pointed out you know if you find if if Titus was to find anybody who met all of these qualifications
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nominate such a one immediately um because also unlikely to find a lot of them um that any such should be considered exemplary and ready for that but I do want to bring in um 1 Timothy 3
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here uh because yet you're Right. And um he Paul even says to Timothy the idea that the elder should be able to be even as Paul is an example to the flock or
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one that they can look to in terms of behavior. Um I'm going to pick up in first I can't do all of 1 Timothy this morning. Obviously I'm going to pick up in 1 Timothy 3, but we're going to bounce around to a couple of places as
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we go. So he says here [clears throat] 1 Timothy 3 beginning in verse one. It is a trustworthy statement. If any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine or noble work that he desires. An
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overseer then must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free
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from the love of money. He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity. But if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how
18:52
will he take care of the church of God? I am not and not a new convert so that he will not become conceited and fall into the condemnation incurred by the devil. He must have a good reputation
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with those outside so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. Um he goes on and and states also similar qualifications for the deacons.
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Well, we'll come back to this. Um, so what he says here, and and it does bring in a couple of points that I think tie in exactly with Titus, which is I've left this on its own. um block here and I don't have a I mean I
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of the things that you think of specifically calling out like the idea of leadership as we often conceive of leadership. I think this is that bracket whereas the rest of these are not necessarily things that would have sprung to our mind if you asked us to
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write a list of leadership qualities. Maybe they would have but the idea of ruling his household. Well, he says here in Titus um he uses the idea specifically. He says
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uh the overseer in verse 7 must be above reproach as God's steward.
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Most of us are familiar with the story of Joseph becoming steward in Piper's household and then eventually basically steward over Egypt. And of course that's the classic word picture or example that we have in scripture of the idea of a
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steward of someone's house. But um it was well attested to in the time and is has been used that way a long time since. the idea that one who uh manages
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these affairs for somebody who is a little more hands-off, right? So the steward and in Jo in Joseph's case specifically, his boss was able to be completely hands-off with the household because Joseph was running everything
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well. And that is the idea here that they are given stewardship over God's possession. They are not given God's possession. they are given stewardship over it to manage it, to guide it, to
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have it prosper so that when God comes to check on it or asks for it back, it's in good order. That's the idea. Okay? And so, as he points out in uh first
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Timothy there, and I think it's implied here also in Titus, if he can't do this, then he's not going to do the stewarding of God's house. Well, that's point one
22:15
of being above reproach, being able to manage his house. Well, um, [sighs] yeah, I'll spend just a second here. Um,
22:30
try to do this succinctly. It's a husband of one wife. Um, literally in the in the text, it's a man of one woman. There is not a separate word in Greek for husband and wife. Man means husband and woman means wife in
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context. But it's the idea of that you are devoted to this one person who is your helper. Um there was some discussion in various sources including
22:51
some of the old sources uh of whether or not this means um like polygamy specifically or if it means you know serial monogamy or if you know those who were widowed and remarried or qu like I
23:03
don't want to go down that road per se. Um I think the idea that Chuck pointed out the idea of being exemplary is in there that you know you're not necessarily complicated by those things
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to be u upright and spotless in that way but also is a distinct contrast again to those um cultures and it's not exclusive to the Catholics but most of it think of
23:24
the Catholics first of all who say that those bishops and overseers are not even allowed to be married. Um George Knight points out in his uh
23:35
commentary that the idea that you are the husband of one wife does not require you to be married to be an elder. In the same way that saying um his children rule well does not mean you're disqualified from being an elder if you
23:46
don't have more than one child. Okay. The fact that children is pluralized doesn't mean you have to have more than one child to be an elder. Nor does it necessarily mean that you have to be married in order to be an elder.
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He is speaking I think um frankly of the common situation for people in his time which was that most people were going to be married and have children. It's also not uncommon at all for elders in our
24:09
time. But I don't read this as a disqualification of an unmarried man of being an elder. The idea of ruling your household well. The things that are under your care you should be doing well. saw at least one source that
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brought in the idea that Paul uh talks about um not putting the young widows on the list of um beneficence because eventually they will want to be
24:31
remarried and it will become a whole thing saying unmarried men should not be considered for the pastor because eventually they're going to want to be married and it'll be a whole thing.
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Again, I'm not sure this is an issue that's facing us particularly. I think he's he's speaking frankly of the common situation and the idea of being able to rule the household is the fundamental
24:52
undergirling piece there. Now, I'm going to speak about this word here specifically because I would hazard to guess that almost all of your translations say children who believe.
25:06
This is the same word when we were in first Thessalonians where it said um not all have faith but God is faithful. It's a conjugation of the exact same word. It's one of those words in Greek that means a lot of things. Um, it has the
25:18
idea of fidelity. It has the idea of belief or steadfastness that is used both to describe believers. It's used a lot. I think it's hundred and something places. Um, it's used both
25:31
to describe the actual idea of believer and it's also used as we saw in first Thessalonians in a context that would clearly mean faith and faithful.
25:41
So, do the children of the elder have to believe? Most conclude yes, and most of your translations go with yes. The King James version was the only one
25:53
that I saw as a quick scan of the versions where they specifically went with faithful. Um, which is maybe a counterpoint to choosing that one because they're not renowned for their good handling of the
26:04
Greek, the King James version. Um, however, I take this in this sense because the undergirling idea here is the idea of ruling the household. Well, and then he goes on to speak
26:16
specifically. He says, uh, children who believe not accused of dissipation or rebellion is clearly linked back to the children specifically in that phrasing. So, it's the idea that the children are
26:27
not rebellious children. The children are not uh children who have a bad reputation in the community that goes under ruling the household. Well, Ariel, you had your hand up. I think
26:38
I think your interpretation I would agree with because a tree is known by it. And while
26:50
we're going to go with a man forward for elder saved all his
27:04
but faithful man raises faithful children. A tree is known by its fruit. Yeah. Yeah. And so it may be in a sense it may be splitting hairs to try to distinguish
27:15
belief from uh obedience or faithfulness in this sense. But I think you're right which is uh a man who is not able to guide and direct or lead his family in
27:26
the faith. [sighs] Is that the man you want leading the entire body in the faith? element of the fifth commandment here.
27:50
That means faithful in relationship with their parents would certainly be very Jewish. That is the conclusion in of you know in
28:01
reading and in digging into what I could um of the of the usages of it and the the context around it. I took it more in the sense of being faithful to o ob
28:11
obedience to parents is the level at which I feel comfortable grounding that it seemed to me an interpretation to say believer
28:29
because there's the negatives there. ESB has our believers but but it also in the footnote uses or are faithful which I always take by experience to mean that you could go
28:39
either way or or even rather that they're being and this is speaking of the ESV rabbit trail for a second sometimes they tend to be they tend to
28:49
on the side of the traditional if it's very much a tossup and what they really think it means especially when there's just a bear or there. See Isaiah 53. But
29:03
in any case, the the children are faithful and not open to the charge of debauchery and insubordination seems to make the definition pretty well all by itself in the text. The faithful is
29:14
defined in some ways at least by the negatives that being presented. Yeah. And and that was the conclusion that I came to. Um, and and I will all say, you know, I spent a while reading some of the other places where this word
29:26
is used and and the differences of interpretation. There's a couple of people that I read specifically when there's questions of the Greek, both of whom came to that same conclusion contextually and from the linguistics.
29:39
But there's a sense in which maybe we're splitting hairs of a word that for the the Greek readers would not have been split in that way because that sort of dual meaning would have been evident, I think, in reading it. You had your hand up. culture which you've done several
29:51
times about reputation in that culture children especially sons represented
30:03
their father reputation we don't really look at it that way
30:28
Yeah. It would be it would disqualify them on the on the above approach in a sense that I appreciate that point because the the community context is important
30:40
there. Um, I did read at least one person suggesting that well this obviously only applies to those who are still in the household like under his authority and I don't think that's right
30:50
at all because for most of these cit was a little more of a traveling place than some places but your children having grown up and establishing themselves will be known in the community not the
31:00
less as your children. that idea of of your lineage, your ability to set people on the right path so that in the community having established themselves
31:11
are known. I think it's almost more important at that level than it is you the level that mine are where like I can put you in your room still. Although in in fairness, you can you can
31:23
fully tell even age seven or so. I mean these things become very evident even in the young. I think I saw James and maybe
32:03
that's that's a very valid point. No one is able to strictly speaking save their own child. Um and and that is a good reminder there. But certainly the idea that they are they are walking in an upright way by his training. Did I see a
32:14
hand back here? No. All right. Uh Jenny and then come back to
32:53
And that, you know, I can take that point because the idea of managing of the household as a microcosm is what we're talking about. That is the the method that's being laid out there. I would suggest that for bodies who are
33:04
considering an unmarried man who doesn't have that kind of track record, that's an individual an individual case call to make that decision. Um I can't I can't from the scripture here
33:15
make it a blanket one or the other. It is fundamentally though, you're right, the idea that the household is the microcosm for what will be entrusted to those who are made elders is that's the
33:26
the bedrock on which we're we're doing those things. Abigail. Yeah. Well,
34:17
I would agree with that. And I also think to interpret it in that way is is stretching, frankly, stretching what we've got. Lauren, you had your hand up.
35:42
Yeah. No, I thank you. That's the very good point. The idea that the farmer, you know, doesn't control the weather, doesn't control some of those factors. It's very very good analogy I think uh very biblical analogy for us examining
35:53
those things which is you know a man can do all of those things and and have parented well and and be you know again his children are not open to the charge of of rebellion or debauchery and yet
36:06
don't have that walk in the faith that is ultimately from God and so I I appreciate that and that's why I bring this this point up specifically I think saying you know the gloss that
36:16
most of the the translations went of putting believer in there is an unfortunate interpretation of a word that doesn't necessarily do that in the Greek. We can look at it the other way around.
36:34
But there becomes a responsibility of the children as well, especially as they mature that their lives reflect and actually either aid or hinder the ministry of their
37:00
I think frankly I think the fifth commandment is too
37:12
how they reflect the honor of the Lord in their parents relationship. So the question was asked, how long do you wait? But I think it just kind of Yeah. From parent raising the child now,
37:43
children. Yeah. No, I I I would take that point very well. Um, you know, you brought up the fifth commandment and and I think most of us tend to think of it from child up, but also the idea that the
37:56
parent has a responsibility to teach that and inculcate that in their children um to honor their parents that that would carry on and be in the in the culture and in the community. So
38:06
yes, um you're right and you know again I I came down rather hard on those who suggest that well this is only those children who are still under your authority in your household at a certain
38:17
point when they're no longer under your authority in your household you just they're on the track as James pointed out they're on the track that you set them on in some ways. Um and so that that continues to reflect in that way.
38:29
You're you're right. Um we're out of time for the most part this morning. I'm going to take one more question. We'll have to come back to some of these things um next week, but Elie, you had your hand up.
38:50
Yeah. Well, and thank you, Elie, because it's a a very good point that um of all the things that we could ask for, this is a pretty good list of things to
39:01
start asking for. that we would have these things both in our elders but also in our body that we would be distinguished by these things.
39:49
necessarily habits and reputations and goals.
40:04
Um, no, you're exactly right. Um, uh, it's it it comes up here in Titus. We'll get there. And then also it it's also there in first Timothy where he says um, you know, the the evil deeds cannot be hidden and similarly good deeds will be
40:15
known. Like you can't hide those things. So the idea, you're exactly right. the idea there that that these things are are distinguishing to go back to Chuck's word, the idea of exemplary. Um, I
40:25
debated whether I would put up this and we can talk more about this next time, but there's a sense in which Yeah, I before E. I don't know. You'll forgive
40:38
me. I think I did it backwards. Um there's a there's a defensive aspect here of not opening yourself up, not not leaving an opening for the enemy and a
40:49
sense in which you are sort of offensively practicing what is good. We'll talk more about that next.
41:07
Well, let's close in a word of prayer as we consider these things and we go uh to the Lord in worship this morning. Let's Our Father, we do thank you for giving us your instruction.
41:19
It is indeed an intimidating thing to contemplate the things that you ask of us. And yet, Lord, it is a reminder to us that we do not do these things alone. For it is impossible that we should do
41:30
so. We do these things by the power of the spirit that you have given us. That same power that raised Christ from the dead is in us in order to work these things for the good of your people and
41:41
for your glory. And so, Lord, I ask that you would be at work among us. That we would not hinder you. We would be as clay in your hands, soft and malleable to be shaped into the instruments you
41:53
would have us to be. and that in so doing we would reflect our maker and give you all of the glory and the praise. As we assemble to do so this morning, Lord, as we call upon your name in song and in prayer and in hearing the
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word preached, be with us. Help us and guide us. We ask that these things might be acceptable in your sight. We ask in Jesus name. Amen.
