2:09
conflict or controversy. You know, even the even the vaunted Westminster Confession of Faith was a really an attempt by attempt by um the English Parliament to get the Scots to come into the Civil War on
2:20
their side rather than the kings. Um and so it was a negotiation between um the the Presbyterians of and the um so it
2:31
was it was politically oriented even though much of what they did was good Bible exug Jesus but there was something that they were dealing with at the time.
2:41
And and so in the reformation, the the eukarist or the mass was was a major feature because of the doctrine of transubstantiation, the the the the
2:52
literal uh change of substance of the bread into the body or flesh of Jesus and the the wine into the blood of Jesus. Of course, that was posed by the
3:02
reformers. But then that led into the whole concept of what is the Lord's supper? And and so that became so central to Protestant
3:14
thinking that most people when they read Acts 2:42 and they read Breaking of Bread, they they think of the Lord's supper. They think of communion. And so we're going to talk a little bit about
3:25
that because I think it is the Lord's Supper, but by no means exhaustively. And I think we can see even in the practice of the early church that that
3:36
it was not simply coming together and having communion. So I want to look at that topic
4:08
I think the best place to learn about the Lord's the Lord's Supper in in the New Testament is not necessarily the Gospels where it's instituted, but rather in first Corinthians where it's abused.
4:23
that that not may seem a little nonsensical, but sometimes we we learn a lot through the correction of abuse. And and I think that it's um very significant also in 1 Corinthians that
4:36
we can tell in chapter 11, for example, that Paul is not talking just about what we call the Lord's supper. That there was evidently a feast going on at the
4:47
time. and and within this feast which came to be known as the agape or love feast, the Lord's supper was observed.
4:58
We don't know exactly how that worked, but I think it's an important um pattern because in in all that the Corinthians were doing wrong, this was
5:10
typically Paul's typically Paul's method. He did not condemn what they were doing. were doing. Well, sometimes they did when they were sinning, but he did not condemn what
5:22
they were doing, only how they were doing it, and most particularly their attitude toward one another. So, as an example, of course, he did not condemn them for speaking in tongues. There are many modern Christians who wish he did.
5:34
That would have made life so easy for, you know, for the church today is if he had just said, "Stop it." Um, but he didn't. And the same thing with 1 Corinthians 11. He doesn't cancel their
5:47
feast and say just come solemnly together and pass a basket of wafers. He allows them to continue to observe it in the manner they are but
5:58
not in the way or the attitude with which they were observing it. So if we look at
6:24
mistakes. And again, as I said, sometimes the correction of error is the is the clearest way to the truth of the matter. Um, so as I as I
6:39
mentioned, we're we're dealing here with this agape feast. When you come together, and this is at this point, it's when you come together in terms of having a meal since some of you um eat too much, some of you drink too much. uh
6:51
you obviously sit amongst your own socioeconomic class and those who come later the poor um you you there's no food left for them and of course he
7:03
condemns them for that he says do you not homes do you not have homes in which to eat and so I guess the first thing about this is it's and I'm not going to
7:38
physically years ago, uh, Fellowship Bible Church, and I I've said this before, so it's a reminder to some, some of you may have not heard it before, but the the pattern of the, um, Sunday morning service had a
7:49
break. I can't remember exactly where it was between Sunday school and the sermon or or what, but during that break, uh the women of the church will would take
7:59
turns in preparing uh refreshments. Um at at the time it's it became somewhat of somewhat of a both a competition and a
8:12
burden. Um I used to refer to it as Denny's breakfast bar. people would be putting out a essentially a breakfast spread. And it it got to the point where
8:26
the families who couldn't afford to do that were of course feeling um I don't know about guilty, but just feeling poorly that that they were poor. Uh and
8:36
and so we ended up of course kind of doing doing away with that. And that wasn't a very popular move. Um doing away with that, but but that's that's not why we're gathering. and even the
8:48
lunchon today. Um, you know, I get I don't want I I don't want to say it to make it sound like anybody is violating because it's not. We always have leftovers here. But Paul does say,
9:01
"Do do you not have homes at which to eat?" And he he's not saying that it's not a meal that you're all sharing together. It's that that once again the
9:13
concern should be for others not for yourself. That's really the issue here is that you know that within any congregation there are
9:23
those who have more and those who have less. And I think Paul would have it that we all have concern for those who have less. Again, don't don't take this
9:35
personally, please. I I have no absolutely no problem with the fellowship lunchon and I don't want to I don't want to be misunderstood as if you know people are
9:45
are lining up at the trough and picking out that that's not the case. What I'm trying to do is say that even even the fellowship lunchon, you know, we think, well,
9:56
that's that's my that's my Sunday midday meal. Well, yeah, in a sense it is, but only if there's enough for everybody. And certainly is there's enough for
10:07
others. That that should be every every single person's attitude is that is there enough for others? And that's what was not happening in Corenth is that people were treating this as if this was
10:19
their meal when in fact it's something different. It's it's a community breaking of bread. It's not just taking the place of one of the day's meals.
10:30
Does that make sense? Okay. Anybody have a comment on that? I that? I mean, here I don't think anybody goes home hungry. And in fact, I know that, you
10:43
know, in the past, um, you know, we've boxed up we have we have we have basically to-go containers in the kitchen to make sure it goes home with people um who who need it perhaps
10:55
more than than others. That's that's as it should be. I think I think that's a very important part of our fellowship is that we do try to take care of the physical needs of one another. But our
11:07
attitude toward this this agape meal um in according to let's let's put the put the passage up there. According
11:19
to what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11, he he puts this this issue where he's dealing with their behavior, but he
11:32
puts it between his introduction in 1 Corinthians 10 of the Lord's supper and Quintonia and his description of that in
11:43
chapters 12,3 and 14 which is involving the spiritual gifts. So, I don't think it's too much to say that Paul viewed this agape feast as
11:56
part of what we would call the worship service. Now, I don't know that we think of it that way because we think that the worship service ends with the
12:08
benediction, then we all go downstairs and have lunch. If if we pattern what we do off of what the Corinthians were doing only
12:20
we try to do it correctly where they did it incorrectly, then I think we see that that this agape
12:41
feast centers around the Lord's supper. I have pondered u the fact that we we observe communion in a fashion that is very different from the way that we eat
12:52
together down here. We face each other while we eat. We over fellowship is self-evidently toward one another. And yet maybe because of the way tradition
13:02
is handed down to us, we all face more or less or less except the kids who are I I took that to be I took that to be
13:12
the less. Yeah, I understand. But they almost have the right idea and Well, let me let me throw something out
13:23
as a as a uh proposition, not a proposal, not not even that far advance. Um but what if
13:53
What if we did the Lord's supper during the lunchon?
14:07
But we don't want you driving home. We want you to want you to stay. And uh we do separate it obviously, right? And it is tradition there. I don't know,
14:18
Mark, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't think of any conscious decision that was made to do it the way we do it, except it just seemed to be most convenient, you know, to finish the
14:30
service and then have the lunchon. And we do, we already orient them together in that we have the lunchon on the same Sunday that we have communion. Did you have a comment,
15:32
distraction. Yeah. Would this return our focus of the fellowship lunchon to Jesus Christ? Whereas um I'm not saying that it's not,
15:43
it's not, but we we are necessarily distracted by setup and setup and preparation. That that's that's necessary. I mean, there there's always
15:54
some logistics involved. Even um asking two of the two of the members to help pass out the the bread and the wine. That's that's logistics. Okay.
16:18
Well, it might. Yeah, might. Yeah, that's that was the the key from the Reformation is to reunite the preaching
18:34
I I want to tell everybody that what we're talking about right now was not in my notes honestly. notes honestly. Um Elie, you were just talking about logistics of what
19:13
around. I don't remember people officiating as much as
19:43
Yeah. One of the things that we I had planned on talking about was just kind of a a refresher on how communion is observed uh in in churches throughout especially Protestant definitely Protestant because
19:55
what the Catholics do we don't consider to be biblical communion um but there there are those who who would celebrate communion every Sunday
20:06
uh church of Christ is is like that they actually believe that communion or The Lord's supper is necessary to maintain your salvation. And that's where some of
20:17
the taking it to the shutins and even to the we were talking about this this week. Even the nursery workers, that was always fun. You know, you're changing a diaper and someone comes in and serves you the solemn sacrament of communion
20:30
and you turn around and hand them the dirty diaper. Um, I mean, it's really hard to examine yourself when you're examining whether you got the butt cleaned. So, but that was I mean you did
20:40
not miss communion. That was one view. The other view was annual that you have um communion season.
21:20
Yeah. But if we did it all at the lunchon, I mean, this is a practical comment that that you're anticipating because I was thinking the same thing. um those who have small children, those who who are down here taking care of
21:30
their children, um those who are in the in the Sunday school or nursery, and then just those who are thinking about, you know, I got to get my mashed potatoes in the oven. If we did it during the lunchon,
21:47
No. Oh, that's the opposite of what you're saying. You think it's
22:31
Right. Um, I'm not asking that that we make a decision on this. I I'm honestly just trying to to get our minds around what Paul is saying in 1 Corinthians 10 through14 and which is all about coineia. within that we have both the
22:45
Lord's supper and the fellowship feast. So it's it's all of a piece and as I said none of this was in my notes this is just kind of going with the flow.
23:59
you consider before we partake. There's certainly that time available to you currently.
24:23
Well, I was I was going to get to that. That is in my notes. That's that passage. So let's let me read that because I think that that is very important because um it it is part of properly taking the Lord's supper and if
24:35
we don't properly take the Lord's supper then it really doesn't matter when we do it how often we do it or where we do it. Everybody agree? Okay. So, um we're not going to just very briefly to finish up
24:47
what I was saying. Some people do it annually, some people do it quarterly. We do it monthly. Um that is a decision that we don't really find in scripture. Uh all all
24:57
that Jesus says is as often as you do it, do it in remembrance of me. So, I think I think there is some room flexibility for when you do it, which we can talk about later. But uh he says
25:11
here, "For as often as you eat the bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes." I'm in 1 Corinthians 11, by the way. Um starting
25:22
in verse 26. Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. But
25:34
let each let a man examine himself and so let him he eat of the bread and drink of the cup. Now I want to stop there because I'm going to read the next verse
25:44
in a moment. But um again this is in my notes. This is something I'd planned on talking about. talking about. As with so much of modern
25:55
Christianity, we have individualized that verse and we have taken it to mean that each person is supposed to examine
26:06
themselves to see that they haven't done anything wrong. They haven't offended anybody. Somewhat like Matthew 18 before you when you lay your gift on the altar. Is that 18? I think that's 18. U if you
26:17
have if your brother has ought against you, go and be reconciled. I've heard sermons preached from 1 Corinthians 11 that have alluded to that. The question is, what is the
26:28
person supposed to be examining? And he answers that in the next verse. He verse. He says, "For he who eats and drinks eats
26:41
and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body correctly. That's the
26:53
That's the examination at least within the context is are you judging the body correctly? But what does Paul mean when he speaks of the
27:14
Contemplate that question is it is one another. It is it's the congregation. I mean this this flows right otherwise this whole passage on the on the Lord's supper is really somewhat out of place in 1 Corinthians
27:25
11. He's dealing with behavioral uh interreational problems in Corenth and he's saying that so when you do he says
28:05
Well, that that that could very well be part of it. Um I I think it's more of an indiv he seems to be making it on one hand very individual. Let a man examine
28:16
himself. But on the other hand, what he's examining is what is your attitude toward the body? Are are you one who comes and eats and drinks until you're full and
28:28
full and merry? Then you're eating and drinking condemnation to yourself. I mean, Paul says further up in the same chapter, he says, um, verse 20, therefore, when you
28:40
meet together, it is not to eat the Lord's supper. So, what whatever it is they're doing, he's saying it's not what you think it is. So individual it is
28:52
individual but it's individual in relationship to the one anothers but the
29:04
is we have to consider ourselves. Yes. But I'm not sure absolutely but but what I've always heard it taught as or often heard it taught as is that we're to consider oursel terms of whether or not we're we've sinned or and there's a
29:15
there's a measure of that. Yes. But it it is more what is my attitude toward the body itself. That I think that's the context is that's what he's talking
29:27
about. Why am I here? And we've talked about this before. It's it's all it's very consistent in Paul. It's it's am I here for myself, which is what he's
29:38
condemning, or am I here for the body, which is what he's
29:56
Let's eat. Let's go ahead and eat together. But it was part of the Passover meal. I mean, it was a solid meal. It was meal purpose, right?
30:07
So, it wasn't every time you got together and ate. Yeah. So, And that meal.
30:30
We don't have to have the Lord's supper with every meal. Is that fair? We don't have to have the Lord's supper
30:41
every time we Well, I Okay, folks get together on Wednesday evening and have dinner. Do you need to have the Lord's supper Wednesday evening? See, I I think we would all say we know that the body
30:55
is not is not present. I mean, there's only part of us
31:07
Yes. Yes. Of course, pretty much any given first Sunday of the month, there are going to be some folks who are out. Um, yeah, this is I mean, the logistics of this is is complicated. I'm not sure one would actually evidently be better
32:23
I I think it is um and and going back to 1 Corinthians 1 Corinthians 10:16 is I think what where Paul would have our mind go when he says what he says in 1126 and 27 that he's trying to
32:34
describe what it is the body is in relationship to the Lord's supper that when we break a bread we are we are communing we are quaning with the body
32:45
of Christ when we drink the cup we are in quineia with the blood of Christ and we are all in that communion. James, you
33:21
Because verse 40 or 21 in chapter 10, for you cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. Um then that's going to that's actually going to take us further, Lord willing, next week into
33:33
the controversy between uh Peter and Paul at Antioch. Um that idea of of the table, different tables and you can't be
33:43
at both and that's that's kind of essential here. Um Lauren
35:16
That's that's a good point. Thank you. Thanks. Just the the different atmosphere of the Thanksgiving dinner um versus the monthly fellowship lunchon and yeah, Abigail. Okay. Um I I
35:29
appreciate this. Like I said, this was not in my notes. Um it it really just kind of kind of came out. And again, I'm not making a proposal. I just I think it's worth our our contemplation and
35:41
maybe revisiting this. Um, but I hopefully the discussion itself, just the discussion itself has helped us reconsider the the purpose of the
35:51
fellowship lunchon on the first Sunday coordinate with the Lord's supper. Um, now we do think the Lord's Supper is more important than the fellowship lunchon, which is why I think it's the
36:02
first Sunday in December, which is so close on Thanksgiving. We just recently had the Thanksgiving dinner and then families have their Thanksgiving dinners that they prepare that we typically don't
36:14
have a fellowship lunchon that first Sunday, but we do have communion.
37:07
Yeah, there there are some practical applications like Anna mentioned that that would nec that may very much argue that okay, you know, when we do it, we do it right after the sermon.
37:17
Okay. So the connection I know you didn't mention that but the connection between the preached word and the sacrament is maintained uh which I think is important but when we do it upstairs we
37:30
are those of us who are upstairs have have just sung together prayed together heard the word together both read and preached and and now we're we're dining
37:42
together. We're we're taking the Lord's supper together. And even though I I agree with Erin because I've been in that situation where you are facing one another, um I'm still thinking this this
37:52
is this is my body. This is my family. I'm having a meal here and we all this is sounds kind of strange, but but maybe I shouldn't even say it, but I will. Uh I'm the type of person I was
38:05
raised in a very particular home where no one ever chewed with their mouth open twice. Um, nor nor were you to be
38:16
heard chewing. Now, my family will tell you that that has stuck with me. So, that we play music during dinner because it's it's a neurosis.
38:26
Yes. I I I look forward to the new heavens and the new earth where it doesn't bother me anymore. But I I honestly really like the sound of any everybody chewing the wafer. I don't
38:39
know. It's just that that you know I I I would rather do that than the soft bread. First of all, I really don't want to all be pulling off the same loaf. Thank you. May the Lord judge me, but that
38:50
just sounds very unhygienic. Okay, but the the the chomp, you know, just the the the sound of everybody eating the bread together. Now, I'm not suggesting you slurp your
39:01
wine, but wine, but um that's I would agree with Abigail that that I think we don't necessarily need to be across from each other to be together as we take it. And then Anna's
39:14
comment, I think, is quite valid. And that is the the hustle and bustle of getting ready for the lunchon. That's not going to go away. We're not going to all solemnly walk downstairs and because
39:26
we're, you know, we're still in that high church mode. We're not we're getting ready. We're setting up the table, putting out placemats, salt and pepper, and all of that. It may be very hard to then transition back to the
39:39
right attitude because we've just interrupted it with with a fairly major. So again, I'm not suggesting anything here. I'm not I I have nothing in my mind saying I think we really should do
39:51
it this way because I really don't. I can see a whole lot of advantages. I can see advantages on both sides. One may outweigh the other. Ariel, what's the
40:27
Yes, I think that that should be a regular reminder. I was, you know, I was thinking um that recently that sometimes we can do things for so long that that they become themselves tradition. We
40:39
don't examine them. And the context was um standing up during the singing, which we didn't always do. We would stand up
40:49
during some of the hymns and not during others. And in case anybody thinks we stand up because there's some biblical requirement to stand up. The reason we stand up is because it's better for your
41:05
diaphragm. Seriously, it's just easier to sing when you're standing than sitting. You don't usually see choirs sitting during their, you know. So, I just those types of things I think maybe every now and then we should just kind
41:16
of discuss why why do we do this? It's not just to have a picnic together. It's it's because we're continuing the communion of the body of Christ that we
41:49
We we do. Yeah. So we can um I mean so the question is we can do it once a year. Can we do it once a month? Um yeah. Yeah. I think that I mean I does anybody disagree I mean I agree with
42:02
Lauren that the Thanksgiving dinner feels different than the fellowship lunchons. I enjoy them both, but there is a different we have a different attitude. Um, honestly, I think it's
42:14
it's one of the most intimate times that this body experiences is the Thanksgiving dinner every year. Um, and and should that not be something that we experience once a month at least? I
42:27
think once a month for some people and I think there's a little bit of stress involved with
43:06
Yeah, I I will share that with you. I do not prepare the meal, okay? But I do wash the pots and pans. And as I walked out of the kitchen this morning, my thought was, "Oh my,
43:24
it does it becomes a little bit of a stretch." So, so do we compromise and do it quarterly or do we do this? Do we do communion once a month and a fellowship meal quarterly? See, I don't see where
44:05
I think that's very valid that that the Thanksgiving and and I think that's a good point. We don't want to confuse the Thanksgiving I don't know that anybody's suggesting that we actually have the Lord's supper during the Thanksgiving meal. I I don't I wouldn't. I I think
44:17
that it is absolutely a a seasonal and and that does of course lend to its specialness. You know, it is only once a year. And and I think that Erin's
44:28
comment um you know, maybe even once a month is just too much of a burden to where we could I there's
44:39
there's I I don't think there'd be any obje objection. If there is, please tell me just to observing the Lord's supper once a month. but perhaps do the fellowship lunchon once a quarter, but do it with the
44:52
Lord's supper instead of separate. Again, I'm I'm just kind of summarizing what everybody's saying to the burden.
45:03
I would point out that for some families it's also a blessing to be able to eat. They're not able to bring as much
45:34
and I think in Corinth it was the same way that that there were those they were neededless. Right. Right. Exactly. And and so there there is a now I
45:51
don't I don't know that we have the same uh socioeconomic dynamics as Corinth whereas we know quite a number of the of the um believers there were were themselves slaves and there were quite a
46:02
number of people from the lower classes. Paul tells us that in the first chapter. Um but there there is definitely especially um I mean our young married
46:13
families it's it's it's sometimes the the weekly grocery budget is a major portion of their of their monthly expenses going outside of just finances
46:24
when that baby is less than a year old speak vast experience when that baby is less than a year old you forget what day
46:36
it And it's a tremendous blessing to us over the years to have that e and flow of our awareness even be accommodated by the
46:58
bodyless. Yeah. Someone else had a attitude that we have preparing the
47:42
stressful. Well, I think uh I I would say that that that's that is true, but also it's true that the recognition that it is a solemn assembly, that it is the body, is why we do it at all. I I don't
47:54
know. I mean, it's kind of like the article I read last week about dinner. Dinner is a stress. A stress that will never go away, but one that and one that cannot be replaced by easy fix throw in
48:06
the microwave meals because dinner is something more than just a meal. And and I I think that what what Aaron is saying is absolutely true. the stress. It's amazing how quickly the the first of the
48:17
month comes, you know, and and maybe it's because of the lives that we live in our culture that we can't really turn back. It is what it is. I think it's the
48:28
the knowledge and the awareness that it is the communion of the body that that allows that probably motivates our our families to do what they do, the for Angela to cook the meal and for me to
48:39
wash the pots. You know, it's like it's not just not just just a meal. It's it's the body. I guess that's what I'm trying to
49:09
Well, I I I guess just for a meal, you're doing it. I guess what I'm saying is it doesn't necessarily reduce the stress, but it gives us the motivation to get through it. Yeah, that's u because I think it is a stress and um you know, our culture is is all about
49:21
how to reduce your stress. Reduce your stress. I'm not sure that's even possible. Honestly, I think people are making money out of telling us to reduce our stress. And normally what we do, what do we do? We get stressed out about
49:31
reducing our stress. I so I think what we're what we're talking about is if we if we all continually remind ourselves and each other about what this is all about and maybe we do that by actually
49:43
having the Lord's supper with the fellowship meal or maybe not or maybe we do that once a quarter instead of once a month. I'm not saying any of those things, but I think we're all
49:55
understanding the same thing, and that is our fellowship lunchon is integrated with our communion together before the Lord. And we we need to maintain that
50:06
integration so that our fellowship lunchon is is truly edifying and and not just a meal. Well, let's close in prayer. It was a great discussion. Thank
50:17
you, Father. Father, we do thank you for your word and for the guidance that it gives us even in challenging our own traditions, helping us to to look at what we do in the light of what you have
50:28
written, not expecting to find some bullet point list of do this and do that, but rather wisdom. Wisdom from you through your Holy Spirit. And we ask for
50:39
that as a family that you would give us wisdom even in the matter of things that we have done for many, many years uncritically. Help us to examine
50:49
ourselves, examine the body, and even examine how we observe the Lord's supper that it might be for your glory and for our edification. For we ask this in Jesus name. Amen.
