Published: September 14, 2023 | Speaker: Chuck Hartman | Series: Pauline Studies 4 - The Church in the World - Part 8 | Scripture: Romans 13:8-14; Ephesians 5:6-14; Philippians 2:1-4
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to the bishop of Rome because of the stature of that City but they're not the ones who call this Council they're the ones that are arguing and it's communicating one another but it's Constantine who steps in and says
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all right we're going to get together and solve this and he actually attended and presided this is the beginning of the constantinian settlement this is the beginning of the relationship between
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church and state this is also the beginning of the reason why we in the 21st century think we can change culture
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change culture say there's there's a reason why we think we can change culture in the West and there's a reason why the early church didn't think that
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and I would venture to say the Chinese Church doesn't think it today okay so we haven't asked that question yet we we assume along with the nibir with his
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five different paradigms we assume not only that we can change culture but that's our purpose the fact of the matter is in the first 200 years 250 years of Christianity
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no one thought that and that there are still eras and places within Christendom true church throughout the world that they don't think it now
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or if they do it it's an absolute exercise in futility so this is the point at which we're going to start thinking hey we we can change this
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we can bring about change in the government we can bring about change in society we can bring about change and culture and that has been the Paradigm for the last 1600 years at least up until the
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middle of the 20th century when the constantinian settlement began to show
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to show serious mortality serious mortality it it it began in the enlightenment of the 18th century um but then it it completely fell apart
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in the 20th century so this this began at the council uh or the Edict of Milan I want to read a couple of quotes in terms of of what it is we're dealing
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with here with here in 313 the emperor Constantine granted Christianity Toleration and legal status now that that's that's a
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historical point so if if you ever hear someone say that Constantine made Christianity the official religion Constantine never banished or abolished paganism
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he simply granted Christianity legal and tolerance status it was now a legitimate religion as Judaism had been for centuries within the Roman Empire now
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Christianity no longer considered to be a Jewish sect now it is also legal you can be a Christian but he went on he said this act ended the last persecution of Christians in
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the Roman Empire which had begun under Diocletian in 303 and it was hailed as the Peace of the church okay so this this is the
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the Prince of Peace is Constantine okay the one who the church thinks has brought peace to the church and prosperity to the gospel is the Roman Emperor now that should have notified some
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people that we're not really on the right track here okay but but it didn't it goes on the constantinian settlement provided social and material conditions in which the religious practice of
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ordinary Christians could flourish and many new converts though not all with pure motives flooded into the newly built churches
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built churches and the na the number of professing Christians exploded Christians exploded and churches and Cathedrals are now going to be the landscape of
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Christianity Bishops will accumulate not only ecclesiastical and spiritual influence but true political power and they will soon within a few
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centuries be ruling as temporal barons
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alliance between the church and the state
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this they were un understandably glad for it you think about it going through chronic persecution is probably not fun we've never experienced
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it but some of these persecutions were quite brutal quite brutal and and so you know I think we can understand and we probably react the same way same way whenever and we do react the same way
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whenever for example the Supreme Court overturns Roe versus Wade we're ecstatic like that matters like that is somehow eradicated the sin
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of abortion of abortion no it hasn't but you see our our natural response and maybe some of it is because of the constantinian settlement our natural response as Western evangelicals
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is to at least in some way look to the government to bring about the Peace of the church
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and we're in a time and that's what's significant here significant here we are in a post-constantinian era and that that's recognized broadly within Western philosophy as well as
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Christianity in fact it's recognized more outside of the western Evangelical Church than it is inside we're still Alice in Wonderland
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but the statistics the statistics the attitudes the Zeitgeist of the West especially Europe but an increasing measure in the United States
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is showing that government not only no longer sponsors Christianity it is often actively hostile to it in a manner that never has not existed from 300 to 1900.
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now that's not to say that the government didn't persecute sects Within Christianity I'm not saying that but they were doing it in the name of the true church when they were wiping out
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and slaughtering anabaptists and drowning them when they were fighting their Wars of religion that when they were fighting the Bohemians during the hussite wars they were doing it in the name of True Religion of Christianity
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so that's kind of the point that there was an alliance formed that has since broken apart any comments
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any comments any thoughts
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um you're saying the state initiated much of the of the at least with Constantine right the way I understand is constantly like you said Constantine didn't make it an official
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religion he just decriminalized it but he also adopted it very much he embraced it embraced it and then you know and then the point is
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oh his influence as far as theology he did have he approved of the uh the settlement he didn't have any he didn't participate as far as we can tell he didn't participate in the debates
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right right and the point the point being only not not what happened at nicaea but the point is that it was initiated by the state
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the state and its purpose was as much Civic as ecclesiastical
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no no no I I in fact I I would say that you know very rarely did the church become the state
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that's the alliance yeah the sturt the church in the Middle Ages that the church would turn over so they turned Martin Luther over to Charles V but it's Charles V who convenes that the diet the the trial of Martin Luther so
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the Civil Authority is presiding over an ecclesiastical and doctrinal trial so it's an alliance it's never a comfortable one
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it would depend very much on the Pope Innocent the Third probably the epitome of papal power the epitome of papal power say that three times that uh Peter Piper the epitome of papal power
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um and it's an interesting era to read through is and it's innocent the third he excommunicated King John of England um problem is he he nullified the Magna
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Carta declared it null and void you know so he was quite powerful uh but then just a few years later wasn't it benefici the eighth is basically taken
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capture by the French King uh roughed up quite a bit dies shortly afterward so it was a it but there's still a sense in which the one can't live without the
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other Henry II probably one of the most powerful monarchs of his age And yet when his men killed Thomas Beckett he just in abject repentance uh
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applies for forgiveness at the church and and humiliates himself yeah so there's there's uh and who was it was it Henry was it Henry canosa who which
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Henry was that this second but of of the Germany Emperor Henry um or Heinrich to keep him anyhow he he goes to the the Pope's
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Castle in canosa in the middle of winter and stands outside for days to gain entrance and forgiveness and then he goes back and does the same thing he was doing before I mean yeah there was a lot
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of conflict and yet there was this recognition that these were two powers galasius in his doctrine of the two swords the Civil sword belonging to the emperor and and the spiritual sword of
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the word belonging to the pope um the whole idea of the Holy Roman Empire was was trying to to bring about this glorious Alliance of the civil and
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the ecclesial power what I'm saying is this started this is not how Paul wrote this is not how Jesus spoke this this is not a Biblical pattern of what the
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church was to be and do in the world it's what we became and during that time we became so
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endured with the idea of a relationship between church and state even if we call it a separation of church and state okay but there's still this relationship
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between church and state that convinces us that this is how it's supposed to be and so that's what gives us the idea that we can change culture by changing the the the the
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um the party makeup of Congress we could change culture or at least you know in a very minimal level we can slow
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down the corruption the corruption the degeneration of culture and so the point here is to say okay we've gone through niebers five paradigms and we've
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talked about the post-enlightenment post-truth West
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s all cultures all cultures throughout history progressively get more evil even within Pagan societies I mean it's kind of the Paradigm of man
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before the the flood has been repeated in different societies ever since no one I mean everybody can can write of their
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Golden Age Rome can write of when the men were honorable and brave and the women were chased and and then later on and they're writing about it because it
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ain't so anymore okay they're writing about the the good old days old days so yes so yes culture degenerates when when we when we
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look at the the metaphor you are the salt of the world we have to remember that in the ancient world salt was not used for flavoring it was used for preserving
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salt salt pork you know it was used to preserve and and to to slow down corruption so in in that sense we're we're not here
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to spice up the world that's not what it means that the church's presence when it's truly the church slows down the corruption of the surrounding culture okay what I'm saying
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is because of the constantinian settlement we have taken that as our Civic and political
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Duty to change to change the culture around us
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all right let me let me bring that because he pointed out they had a chapel uh speaker who said that you know as long as Americans have their freedom the gospel will keep going out but when we lose our freedom the gospel
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will be suppressed we will not be able to put it out again who's going to be responsible for the success of the Gospel Constantine Gospel Constantine right his representative today and we
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still think that way we still think that somehow we have to regain whatever we imagine that we had politically in terms of Rights and Freedoms and and for the
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sake of the church and the gospel as if the gospel and the church are dependent on political power granting us the right to preach
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is Isaiah 26 9 where when your judgments are in the Earthly inhabitants of the world to learn righteousness say that again well let me let me Isaiah yeah let me read it because it's very
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hard for people to hear um from the audience so Isaiah 26 9
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second part for when the earth experiences thy judgments the inhabitants of the world learn
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unfortunately the Earth hasn't experienced the judgments of the Lord um yet to the extent that they will but but getting back does that answer your your question that all cultures degenerate
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okay everybody every generation is is yearning for the good old days
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yes and yes and yes um how why does it start out better because we are creating the image of God and and we we do sometimes by God's common Grace recognize the degeneracy of
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our of Our Generation and and sometimes there are reforms even outside religion there are reforms political reforms um our country was a political reform
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okay but even within denominations you see when you when you read the writings of the early preachers and theologians of a particular denomination
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you see their fire for the word for sound Doctrine sound Doctrine but then you watch over generations and now it's not even Generations
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okay but you watch them degenerate you watch them assimilate and accommodate and then Doctrine doesn't matter anymore
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and then next thing you know the world is very much in and that denomination then splits because there's a group within it a Remnant that says this is it's all gone
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it's degenerated let's start afresh and they do they do PCA in 1973 okay on fire for the Lord as much as Presbyterians could be
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hey but look at them now they're they're going woke going woke and it's it's not even been a generation it's so yeah that pattern it's part of the the Fallen one of the the reasons is
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because we're not going to bring about the new Earth and and the New Kingdom ourselves that's going to come through the work of the Holy Spirit and of the Lord himself so when we even
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when we try to do something really good and we get together and we form a parachurch organization because we're going to stand for the gospel and or the inerrancy of scripture and next thing
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you know we're tolerating open theism and and again wokeness and same-sex marriages and gender fluidity and because whenever we we become an organization
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that organization becomes at the end in
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yes oh yes oh yeah we and evangelicals are doing the same thing I mean we will compromise in order to regain the the influence that we thought we had even a generation ago
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okay and what I'm trying to say is that's that's the wrong Paradigm first of all it probably should have never happened as it did and it really isn't a good idea to want
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to go back if if constantinianism is over that is in my opinion a good thing and a tremendous opportunity under God
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you know as humanly thinking because it's God's Providence and his sovereignty that matter but it it it is a tremendous opportunity for the church to return to the pure
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we do these things I I certainly don't think you're saying the spirit can't do certain things but are you saying that these organizations or these groups and these things that come about come about would be unlikely to be of the spirit
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because of what we see in scripture like what says I'm just saying what I'm saying is any any of these organizations I don't I don't personally see any purpose of a parachurch
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I I confirm I I am pretty firmly sure um the para Church organization is not the fullness of him who fails all in all
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para Church para Church is enough for me to say ain't the church so no I I don't go for that but my my point is they all started well with very
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good intentions good intentions and none of them have maintained that that's all I'm saying I'm not passing judgment on any denomination I'm simply saying if you read the writings of their earliest Founders it's like yeah that's
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right well you might not agree with all of them but you know there's this even within even within Roman Catholic monastic the the Dominicans the franciscans the
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Jesuits you know within that Roman Catholic Catholic Doctrine and theology they were Orthodox they wanted to defend the true faith
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didn't last didn't last that's my point is that not not to judge their motives or even the rightness or wrongness of what they were doing but simply to say an answer to Lauren's question that degenerative uh germ is in
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pretty much everything we do it's in in chemistry it's called entropy the tendency of all things to toward greater disorder and I do think it belongs in social movements
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religious institutions and all Islamic writers see it within the various sects of Islam
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honestly I think much less than we think it did it did honestly very very few of the reformers even thought to break with the constantinian settlement the only ones that did were the anabaptists
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the rest just simply modified it whether in Geneva or in Saxony or in in England they simply modified but the the framework of constantinianism
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was very much in place throughout the reformation and Beyond so um what influence I and on one hand I think it had a tremendous influence that
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can be traced through the impact of northern European countries on the rest of the world
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um Max Weber called that the the Protestant ethic the Protestant work ethic and the spirit of capitalism and you know we live in a Freer World a more prosperous World in our particular part
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of the world then most of mankind could could even dream of dream of and a lot of that has to do with the um the impact of the Reformation so and
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that I wouldn't want to not have it okay uh that that that's for sure but in terms of the actual Church itself I'm not sure the impact
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was as great as we like to think it was
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like we just won a game yeah it's it's the way we think the Israelites wanted a king that they might be like the Nations around them and and we do want and we have had and I guess that's the point of all this and
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that is we were given a long day in the Sun s-u-n but was it a good thing I want to read a couple quotes
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here's one um having that having that day in the Sun or the political influence the the
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recognition of the government even the sanction and protection and even the military of the government behind you to
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eradicate the albigenses in southern France okay is that yeah yeah we'll bring in bring in the the Civil sword will do our dirty work for us in the Name of Christ okay
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and we don't see that anymore at least not in our country um it's different now the the the the the public forum and its reaction to
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Christianity now is one of contempt and marginalizing we haven't descended into physical persecution
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don't personally think we will I think we you know anything can change it's in God God is sovereign but I think we can look to Western Europe and and kind of see our future
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and you don't see Christians killed burned at the stake in Western Europe they're just simply either ignored or laughed at laughed at okay or or they are doing and adopting
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every possible accommodation in order to still remain relevant please I mean we've become beggars please let us back into the dance let us back into the party
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one one professor writes Christianity was transformed from a movement located on the margins of society into the official religion of the Roman Empire he's talking about the period between Constantine and
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theodosius basically the fourth century from being perceived as a threat to the security of the empire into a guardian of the status quo such a profound change in the identity
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of the church could not fail to have far-reaching implications indeed Europe would be known as Christendom until the 20th century 20th century we've gone from the margins to the
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peripheral to the center with Constantine we're going to stay in the center for another 1600 years again it's it's fluid it's Dynamic and
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not and and there's going to be changes but Christianity in Western Europe and then over into North America also South America because Roman Catholicism is where this all kind of first started
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Christianity is going to be a major political force for 1600 years
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Ottomans and uh Eastern Orthodox they took over for probably a thousand years right years right more more from like 700 in in Spain yeah
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I didn't really I don't think it played at all because the other world religions have always been constantinian
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the cross-cultural area of the Mediterranean is very significant but that's more in the development of Western Civilization which I would say would be somewhat independent of what we're talking about um Christianity is really
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after Judaism after Judaism the only non-entity religion that that's in the world we were on the peripheral we were on the
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margins then Constantine and and I don't know that this was his intention I'm just saying this is he was the one who kind of made it official but we all moved into the center now the point of that of all this is
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that we've been pushed out to the margins again okay so if we look at the the culture in which any any church finds itself from
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the resurrection of Christ until 313 until 313 we're on the margins
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now during that time the church is growing phenomenally growing phenomenally I'm not saying it's growing entirely purely we were told by The Parables that that wasn't going to happen that there would be tares mid in the
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midst of the wheat so don't get me wrong I'm not I'm not saying the first three centuries were idyllic they were not you could just read first in second Corinthians and realize it was
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not idyllic even in Paul's day and in Paul's churches the point is political impact political activism was
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not on the agenda it was not allowed to be on the agenda it wasn't an option but then it became an option now that's providential
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we can't go back and undo it but we can recognize what negative impact it did have and there was positive impact as well but what negative impact
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was caused by that constantinian settlement but really the the point is okay so we move from margarine to the
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now does does anybody disagree that in Western Europe well actually Europe and the European colonies Christianity was at or near the center
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of public life for many many centuries and again that word Christianity may not even deserve a Capital C okay I'm not passing judgment on the the
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truth of it but what was represented as Christianity was in bed with the political powers and in some cases was the political power itself as
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in the Papal States so this this is you know say um A.D um A.D 30 to 313 then A.D 313
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to I don't know 1950 okay we're on the margins again
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another quote before Constantine before Constantine Christians had known as a fact of experience that the church existed but had to believe against appearances
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that Christ ruled over the world okay this point here they knew that the church existed
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but the biblical statement that all authority in Heaven and Earth have been given unto Jesus you had to walk by faith
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there was no visible political evidence of that in these centuries after Constantine one knew is a fact of experience that Christ was ruling over
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the world the world why because the emperor said he was okay but had to believe against the evidence that there existed a believing Church
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now what is becoming a matter of Faith as to whether or not the church is even real because so much worldliness had entered into the church and really fairly soon
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after Constantine after Constantine that it's Purity became very hard to
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seems to be the description of the people of God fleeing Into the Wilderness where she has a place prepared by God in which she is to be nourished for 1260 days and the descriptions that follow are are
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things which in in any age need to be believed sometimes more and more diff with more difficulty uh than others in other words the call
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for those who had found themselves Suddenly at the center would have been to believe that they were indeed at the margins even if they looked like they were the same right and there were always pietists monastic movements
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anabaptists there has always been albigensis there have always been those within professing Christianity who have rejected the alliance
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first form and I'm saying Constantine that's simply a paradigm a rubric okay we all understand that there were other kings and other Emperors and other compromises in different parts of the
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world but in the western sense Constantine has just become the rubric under which we see this alliance between Christianity and and world power
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um that has never benefited true
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we're still wanting a king that's yeah absolutely and that's that's a good Insight because we're we're still but what what I'm trying to teach is that we are in a different I've been trying to show we're in a different era than many
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generations ago or even a few Generations ago Generations ago things are changing faster things are not the same as when I was a boy certainly not the same as when my grandfather was a boy he wasn't a
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Believer but you know the world is structurally different in the West than it had been for a long time in terms of a relationship of the church
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wherein we think okay we need to adopt this knee burying pattern for impacting culture oh no no no that's not the one that works we need to do this one well really I think you do two-thirds of that
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one and one-third of this one and that'll that'll be the recipe what if the entire Paradigm is wrong
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what if it's time for a copernican shift a revolution a revolution and we start and what if the time is actually by God's Providence been presented to us
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by the fall of a system under which we convinced ourselves that we have political impact in this world the constantinian settlement
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in other words what if this is not a bad thing at all and the bad thing is wanting to go back here which so many evangelicals do
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okay we we look at this and yeah it's not it's scary okay it's scary but I imagine going through those two walls of water across the Red Sea was a
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bit scary bit scary going out into the Wilderness was a bit scary I imagine just Abe Abram being called out of his homeland was a bit scary
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you know we're not we're not we're not promised to be worldly powers worldly powers and and to wield worldly influence we're
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going to talk next week Lord willing about Corinth about Corinth Corinth is a incredible case study of what the political spirit will do to
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a congregation a congregation and it's in Corinthians that we read the weapons of our Warfare are not carnal but are divinely powerful
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you know I mentioned earlier that Paul uses so much military terminology but he uses it in a very counter-intuitive way
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counter-intuitive way and maybe and maybe if we saw things right this would scare us more than this than this okay and I'm not I'm not meaning to to
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say oh it's it's all doom and gloom I don't personally think in my reading of History that it will be that we will descend into physical persecution I don't know
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I'm just saying you know reading history reading European culture Western culture just kind of looking at what's going on I think it may be one of the greatest
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opportunities that evangelicalism has had in a very long time an opportunity to actually be the church
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and that's what that's where that's where we're headed that's right no that would be a d opportunity yeah no I'm talking about an up an opportunity to be the church
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and for the gospel to become unencumbered by politics by politics and I mean any politics now it's gone it's it's not going to be
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and I don't delude myself when I read church history any such movement away from influence was met by the institutionalized church
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with violent opposition and even but we live in an age where that's not going to happen
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because the institutionalized church has lost its sword it's lost its backing it's lost it's Alliance
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the government I don't think the government is really interested in killing Christians killing Christians I think the government is interesting and interested in simply marginalizing
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and ignoring Christianity so the opportunity you know there have always been pieters I said monastics pietists anabaptists who said we can't
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be in bed with the state the problem was that the environment in which they were living was so in bed with the state
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that their actual ability to survive was often short-lived the difference between their ear the let's say 16th century anabaptists
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versus 21st century Christians the difference is difference is the government's not paying any attention to us they don't they don't care anymore
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there's more denominations or non-denominations
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and many of those divisions are can be traced to traced to civil or political issues and we'll talk about that Lord willing next week because uh the the spirit of Corinth is still within the church today
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um but okay so what I'm trying to say here is that we live in a post-constantinian world post-constantinian world and at the very least whether whether you agree with the conclusions I arrive
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at and they will be preliminary and tentative because I'm not a prophet or whether you think we should go back to trying to regain political
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influence and re-establish the constantinian settlement through our voting and our Congress and our president the point is this situation of constantinianism
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really took a body blow with the enlightenment and afterward as we talked about post-modernism and then post-truth
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that relationship between Christianity and the Civil power has all but been severed and again that's something that that I found in articles and in books recognized by non-christians
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as much or more as by professing
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when we when we recognize this as a as a fact of historical development it presents us with the opportunity of a paradigm shift
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paradigm shift that having red nibor or having thought about the different ways that the church can influence culture through abandonment or accommodation or
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assimilation or whatever maybe it's time to think that those paradigms themselves
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are in need of rejection and it's time for a shift one one author says in short it appears that some and perhaps all of niebers
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five patterns need to be trimmed in some way by reflection on the broader realities of biblical theological developments I think that's hedging bets
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that's actually D.A Carson and his Christ and culture um Christian culture Revisited what what is it Revisited yeah for some
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reason and thought in my mind it didn't sound right sound right however later in the same in the same he he says Christian communities honestly
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seeking to live under the word of God will inevitably generate cultures that to say the least will in some sense counter or confront the values of the dominant culture
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dominant culture Christians thus shaped by scripture Envision a church that not only counters alternative cultures but also seeks sacrificially to serve the good of others the city the nation common
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Humanity not least the poor salt does not confront it enhances well I would disagree salt does not enhance it
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we've talked last week about or actually Sunday morning we talked about the gospel coalition gospel coalition and D.A Carson is one of the founding members of the gospel coalition and it is one of the tenets of the co of the gospel coalition to impact culture
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through the church in other words D.A Carson is niburian okay he's not willing to adopt any one
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of niebers patterns or all five together but he's also not really willing in my opinion to think outside of that box
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and I'm wondering if it isn't time that we actually do think outside of that box that perhaps the church was not put on the planet to impact
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culture much less to change it or perhaps we're mistaking the effect for the cause has Christianity impacted culture
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absolutely yes absolutely yes does that mean it was the purpose of Christianity to impact culture not necessarily do you see where I'm going I'm not saying that we go back to
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monasticism that is absolutely illegitimate from any any scriptural interpretation to just isolate into our little communes and not have any contact
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with the world around us I am not going
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off in the wildernesses in the time either 4th Century fathers and things and you read of their writing castigating these sects and they complain that they are making grades
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even against the clergy and winning them as converts these ones who ran off into the Wilderness to get away from the flood of errors were by no means
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monastic they they absolutely interacted with with professing Christianity yes yes and they were they were very militant in
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their monasticism their monasticism and so there's always been that element within Christianity but we've always read about it as being Fringe and almost always is being persecuted
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but we're never really taught within the the the the the the pale of Christianity were never really taught what these people taught and believed but only that they were Heretics they
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were the cathars they were the aubergenzis they were the valdezians they were the anabaptists and because they disrupted the Peace of the church which by the way Constantine gave us the
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emperor you know we killed them okay and and they could do that then and they may be able to do it again because the early church was persecuted as well
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by the state but during the constantinian settlement most of the persecutions of the church were by the church I should tell you something right there
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d8 Carson probably is represented on my bookshelf as much or more than most other common contemporary authors I have a lot of respect for them I don't I don't mean to disparage him or his motives or his Christianity
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yeah I'm glad you mentioned that I I I'm just simply saying that from his writings in a book that is that is purposefully an analysis of niebers
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book I don't think he fully escaped the orbit the gravitational pull of niebers paradigm
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have no idea I think it's very hard to escape the orbit of a prevailing center of gravity I really do I guess what I'm trying to say is that the fall and the dis and the dissolution of the constantinian settlement
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constantinian settlement is like a solar flare it may Propel the church back to where it once was it in spite of itself in spite of the church okay we're in a
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period where period where um we have the vast majority of Western Christianity especially in the United States not so much in Europe anymore but still in the United States
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is vigorously trying to re-establish its position in the center it's sad to watch we're begging at the table we who are more than conquerors we who
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are the children of the king are begging at the table of the Civil powers that's embarrassing that's embarrassing to see us kowtow
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and grovel at the feet of politicians selling our souls and our churches in order to support a political agenda
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we've become social activists we oppose particular people groups and sometimes with great uh hatred and vitriol okay so things aren't good in the South spoon Ranch okay things are not good in
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Christianity Today anybody who thinks they are has got their eyes closed and their head in the sand I mean really does anybody here think that the situation in Western
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evangelicalism is in a good place that someday writers will be looking at our time and saying oh that we could be as they were and I don't think so
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and so you know we keep doing the same thing expecting different results we all know what that defines but we've got Paul we've got the spirit we've got the New Testament we've got
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the words of Christ himself in terms of the church the church and and when we read that's really what I want to try to set up is that when we read Paul especially in Corinth
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we realize that was never the right way to begin with that in a sense even within that we see the the minor Reformation
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but maybe we needed something a whole lot bigger and actually that's what the anabaptists concluded it didn't go far
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we don't even have to vote we don't have to vote it is not our Biblical Christian duty to vote I mean you're going to have to show me where it's written that it's my Christian duty to vote when I'm being
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presented with some of the scum of the Earth trying to become leader of the Free World I mean maybe I just maybe my vote is not voting at all we're going to talk about that we
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are we live in a free Democratic Society and it's been hammered into us that our Republic depends on us continue to
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participate but our Republic is simply as Paul says the form of this age which is passing away so every generation of Christianity and
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don't think that our forebears didn't get involved as well even those who lived in medieval times when you didn't have voting they still got involved especially the uh their aristocracy
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but the church certainly did and the clergy certainly did and what they did was as that age passed away they passed away with it
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but well I was thinking because this occurs to me that uh John the Baptist because yes
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I'm not I'm not okay that's a good point again it's very easy to hear what I'm saying and think that I'm saying that the church needs to be silent and to avoid the world I am not saying
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that we are the pillar and Foundation of Truth and anytime we refuse to stand for the truth whether it's gender fluidy or
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immorality or corruption then we are no longer the truth the okay I'm what I'm saying is
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the idea that we can somehow change culture is I think illegitimate okay but but stick with me we've got
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several more weeks yet to go where we start to try to practically apply this I am not saying the church should keep its mouth shut in the world I'm not saying that at all and John the
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Baptist is a great example okay um I'm just saying that what we've been told is our responsibility and even our god-given responsibility
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god-given responsibility is our responsibility born out of this paradigm that I think is itself biblically illegitimate the idea that there is some
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alliance between Christianity and the world system world system there is not if we are standing as John the Baptist
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or as the prophetic some people call it the prophetic Ministry of the church what we are basically doing is proclaiming the righteous Judgment of
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God against the immorality of Our Generation we must never stop doing that
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yeah he wasn't trying to Ally himself with Herod with Herod yeah no he wasn't trying to and he actually I don't know that he actually thought Hera would just change his his the lifestyle the lifestyle I mean he he reasoned with him he
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probably would have been happy if Herod would do that he didn't you know but um I don't think that's why Paul you know when he said to uh to Felix
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or was it Festus and Agrippa and Beatrice you know I wish that you would be as I am except for these chains he wasn't trying to be to Ally with the King and say oh you know if I if you and
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I work together you being the king and me being the Apostle what things we can do no that wasn't his mindset at all he was presenting the truth of Jesus
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Christ he was speaking truth to power but he had no intent of changing that form of power because he knew it was passing away
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he gave him yeah you know and Jesus says when you are dry when you were dragged before princess and Kings the spirit will give you the words to say so I I am not in in any way saying that we should become mice and
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mute in the world that's not what I'm saying I think we should become even louder but it's what we say that needs to change that's what I think
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okay what we say needs to go back to what they what Jesus said what Paul said in the midst of a perverse generation
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and in the midst of a oppressive political environment that we may actually experience again in our own time okay so
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we we I think we can accept that Christianity is is largely banished from the public forum because everybody agree with that
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the influence of Christianity once had even 50 60 years ago is greatly diminished okay no argument with that okay so
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the problem with the anabaptists is that they meant that Christianity itself is non
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I would submit that Christianity is intensely political intensely political but in a completely different manner than the politics of the surrounding
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and the reason I do this and I'm not I'm not original on this this is actually you'll see the quotes in the notes it's because of the terminology the New Testament uses Testament uses so for example
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one one author called I'm going to put in quotation marks he calls it the politics of Jesus
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provocative because the common image of Jesus is not as a political activist in fact he's like he's like Gandhi writ large you know that's that's
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how he's portrayed never you know not break not breaking a broken Reed you know just not snuffing out a small he's this kind of Namby pamby
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but certainly not political okay Now remind the fact that he forms a cord and whips the money changers out of the Temple he calls Herod a fox
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he tells pilate you know my kingdom is not of this world but if it were I would call down 12 Legions of angels and you'd have a rough time of it okay never mind
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you know remember the fact that um Pilate um Pilate on his own recognizance wrote King of the Jews in the three
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languages of the region and he said what I have written I have written okay so what how do we know that Christianity is political well first of all we do know that Paul speaks of our
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now military um was it uh Bismarck who said that that war is simply diplomacy carried on by different means different means okay you know the the military aspect of
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human society is always political so the terminology that Paul uses when he says we we wrestle not against flesh and blood or the weapons of our Warfare
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they are divinely powerful for the tearing down of strongholds that's political speech but perhaps the most political that we
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find in the New Testament is this joint phrase curios
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soter doored and savior now we have so I mean we've we've so been accustomed excuse me
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hmm we've been so accustomed to Jesus Christ being our Lord and our savior in fact we've even grown to the point where we can say he can be one and
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not necessarily the other you know he could be your savior but doesn't necessarily need to be the Lord although Peter said he has made this Jesus both Lord and Christ Lord and Savior we we've
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lost the uh the history of this joint phrase this is actually a Roman Imperial title there was only one kurias Kai soter
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especially in the Greek part the eastern part which would Encompass the Middle East of the Roman Empire that was Augustus whoever Augustus might have been Tiberius Nero
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domitian you know whoever it was the