Published: March 23, 2025 | Speaker: Chuck Hartman | Series: Worship 2 - Part 11 | Scripture: 1 Corinthians 14:23-26
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and his family the birth of their child. We thank you, Father, for the the many children that you have blessed our congregation with and ask that we might be faithful as parents and and even as
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uh as grandparents and and uh pseudo grandparents that we might indeed raise up these children in the honor and admonition of the Lord and might have
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the joy and the privilege of seeing them come to faith at a very early age. Father, we do pray that you would bless your people here and throughout this
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community, throughout this country, indeed throughout the world this Lord's day as we turn to you in your word, and ask that your spirit would open our eyes and teach us, guide us, reprove us,
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train us in righteousness, that we might live to your honor and to your glory and to our joy. We pray that you would build your church, the church of Jesus Christ, and
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that we as joints and ligaments within that body and within this body might both know and do that which we are to supply for the building up of the body
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in love. We ask this, Father, for your glory and the exaltation of our Lord Jesus Christ, in whose name we pray.
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If you would turn with me to 1 Corinthians 14, uh following up on our discussion last week, uh which I think was with both a very sober discussion
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and also potentially a very controversial one concerning, you know, that that perennial question, at least in the modern church, um when when can I leave this church? Um usually around
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and please do because someone has to lock up. Um, no, you know, it the idea that you can never leave a church and and it's really um uh a dichotomy for ministers because you're you're you're
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kind of expected to um bless whatever the congregant says they're going to do. Whatever they say the Lord is leading them to do, you're supposed to say, "Well, God bless you. Here's the door."
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Um but then on the other hand, you're supposed to be loving and welcoming and and and pastoring and and you know, it's it's it's really a a difficult um balance. Um and and there's that third
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uh aspect of it, that one that kind of overarches all of them, and that is that the pastors of the churches are those who must give an account. One of the questions that I've mentioned, I brought
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up, and I kind of want to uh hopefully at least lay my case on the table from what Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 14 is whether or not what he is saying in his
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letters is to the church in general or to the local congregation. Now, now, so far I've maintained that what Paul teaches
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concerning the one anothers and the the body life and the joints and ligaments and all of that that we've looked at in Ephesians 4 and Philippians 2. When you say localation, you're not talking that
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I'm talking any local congregation by extension and application of what Paul is writing to that local congregation. I don't think there's any argument that Paul's letters were written to specific bodies of the church, right?
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And yet the church recognized that what he was writing was for the whole church. We have we have it together in the cannon of the New
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Testament. And then we actually have um Paul saying in in his letter either to the Ephesians or the Colossians, you know, to send it on to the next church.
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And then also the letter I wrote to Lauda, you know, I it's going to come to you and you read it. So they were actually uh circular. That's that's interesting. So there's no there's no doubt that in my mind that what Paul
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wrote he wrote to the church at large. The question is how do we apply it? Now there's there's the argument in the church today that what Paul writes he's writing to the church
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universal. So that yes, I'm a joint. Yes, I'm a ligament. But I'm a joint. I'm a ligament in the in the church, the the big capital Catholic church, not
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Roman Catholic, but the universal church. My contention is that doesn't work in just practical application or in
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what Paul is actually saying to these people especially when he exec or exercises discipline in Corenth for example chapter 5 you know or when he
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talks about their their love their agape feast and communion this is going on and then in Romans this is going on in that
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church and So looking again, we we started out this little section with verse 26 of chapter 14 where Paul writes,
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"What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all
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things be done for edification." So the first thing I want to put up is the uh the
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uh the venue in which what he's admonishing is to be done when you assemble. Okay.
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So that that's our question. We're talking about the local church or the universal church.
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That statement right there I think is a is a very practical answer to the question because the universal church never assembles. When the universal church assembles it'll be the new earth. Okay. So, um,
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again, that's just really speaking to the practicality of what it is Paul is writing and the impracticality of trying to apply in our own lives as believers,
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as joints and ligaments, as members of the body, the concepts that the Holy Spirit is teaching. But I think Paul's even more explicit in this chapter. And I want to read just a few verses uh to
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to hopefully help at least establish my case that what whatever your local congregation, these are the principles
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by which that congregation is supposed to live both its um its its doctrine certainly but but even more its practice, its polity, okay? How how it
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functions and how it grows. And he says, for example, a little bit earlier in chapter 14 in verse 19, um he's talking about speaking in
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tonesues and in the context of edifying the body. And what he's saying is, you know, I speak in tonesues. I speak in
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tonesues more than any of you. And yet my purpose is to edify. And if someone speaks in tongues and there's no one to interpret, then
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there is no edification. So in verse 19, he says, "However, in the church, I desire to speak five words with my mind that I may I may instruct others also rather than 10,000 words in
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tongue in the church." So looking a little bit further, 1 Corinthians
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14:19. This is the word eklesia. This this is the word church. But I don't think it would be reasonable to to interpret Paul as speaking of the church universally. I mean, that's what he does when he's in his room praying. He's still in the
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church in that sense. He's still in the body of Christ. But what he's saying here is the church in this at least in this context is that that portion of the body
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of Christ who are either edified by what he does or does or not. Does that make sense? I mean that that's that's the context of of all of
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these um admonitions that he's bringing. This is
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edification. Again, I I don't see I mean may maybe this happens in a a spiritual dimension that we don't
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perceive, but I can't see that what we do on a Sunday morning has any impact on what's being done at First Baptist downtown or Second Presbyterian or any
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other church that is assembling on this Lord's day. And so what we do when we think about you know what is what is my gift? What is the Holy Spirit
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given to me for the edification of the body? I think the modern church has created this atmosphere that that we
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can provide our input kind of globally that we can be almost like free agent Christians and and kind of do what we do
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for the church as a whole. I don't think that's what the scripture teaches. I also don't think that the history of the modern uh church and and its its
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scattered nature, its transient nature and and even throw in the parurch organizations. I really can't see where you can look at all of that and say that it's worked really
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well that that the church of Jesus Christ has indeed been strengthened by the concept of a of a universal church versus a local congregation.
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Now, this gets into a whole different realm of discussion that we often tackle on Thursday evenings and but it it really comes into that idea of
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the new creation community.
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the idea of being embedded, being a new creation people embedded in the midst of the old creation. And I think this is a a very powerful key to understanding not just
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the letters of Paul, but the purpose and plan of God even in calling Israel. Israel was an embedded community. And I I believe that the church in a
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universal sense is absolutely an embedded community, but that the practical application of that being embedded within an unbelieving culture
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can only play out in the local congregations. So that's where I'm coming from. Now, another quick caveat is I understand that not everybody
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agrees with that. There's a passage. I thought it was in Philippians, but I couldn't find couldn't find it. Paul, and I I don't I don't mean this to sound like I'm speaking as Paul.
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Please don't misunderstand me. But Paul says, "As many as are mature will have this view, and for the others, the Holy Spirit will teach you,
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too." Okay. Now, I I do believe that this is what Paul says, and I, as Paul says elsewhere, I also trust that I have the Holy Spirit. I'm not an apostle
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though. And yet even Paul as the apostle did not insist on simple blind obedience to what he was teaching. He said the Holy Spirit will reveal this to you as
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well. And in any body of Christ, there are going to be people of different age, not just physical age, but age in the Lord. And also different backgrounds and
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different understandings and different anxieties. And I think we have to accept that. So I do want to make something clear this morning in terms of who pulls
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all this together. That that's a very important distinction between what I think is a biblical polity of the church
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and what is often happening in local congregations. Who is the one who creates coineia? Justin
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general, right? I I don't think that it is or it can be. And I think that the reason that anybody would think that it is or can be has more to do with the culture that we live in, especially in the western world. This is not an issue
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in the evang evangelical churches in Africa or even Korea, South Korea. I need to make clear which Korea. um that that what I'm what I'm teaching is
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actually standard fair in in in a most evangelical churches in Africa don't don't think that that their responsibility as an individual believer
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is global. No, that that that what that does is that dilutes your purpose to such a diffusion that it actually has no
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power. Uh I I don't think we realize the power of a of a vital local church and vital local churches. Okay. I I really think
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now I wish I had time to talk about what what Mark and I have talked about over the years. I mean, if the Lord were to grant us growth in
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numbers, would we just simply become another mega church? You know, we we drove through easily on Thursday and we saw what was it? Rock Springs. Rock Springs has its own zip
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code. Okay. I think it has its own time zone. It's it's It's it's huge. And but I look at a church like that and say I I don't see how uh but
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you know that the Lord can do what the Lord does. Our vision or at least it has been. the Lord has never really given us opportunity to execute it would be to actually start other
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churches and then perhaps um have a communion assembly, maybe even rent a place where we could the the local bodies could meet and have communion and
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service together. But that's that's all um you know very pie in the sky thinking. Um but what what it's based on is the idea that there there is a practical limit
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for example as to how many people you can especially as a pastor that you can effectively shepherd. Okay. Um and I've seen
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churches do it with shephering groups where people are assigned to shepherd. I I don't think you can actually, you know, I really can't see, you know, if the Lord says, "Well, let's talk about
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Joe and how you, you know, shepherd," and I say, "Well, he wasn't mine. He was someone else's." I I don't see that. So, but that's that's a that's really a rabbit trail.
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rabbit trail. Um further in chapter 14 in verse uh 23 Paul says if therefore the whole church should assemble together and all
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speak in tongues and ungifted men or unbelievers enter will they not say that you are mad? I've been there. I've been in that congregation. Um but but listen
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to what he's saying. If the whole church should assemble. Now what is he talking about? Do we think he's talking about believers from Jerusalem and Antioch and Ephesus and Philippi and
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Thessalonica and Rome all assembling and then an unbeliever comes in? Well, I think he's talking about the
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local assembly and that unbelievers did come in and not so he's expanding his argument here from not only edification
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but also witness. I'm wondering
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right that is exactly what I'm saying okay that that the attitude is I don't really have any responsibility to a local body I have a responsibility to the church and therefore it doesn't really matter where I go on Sunday as
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long as I'm in church. And and that's that's that's a very widely held view. In fact, we Yeah. Oh, yeah. In fact, we we've had people um who have told us,
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"We're only here for a while. Um we move around." And I like, "Okay." Um that's that's their view. And in
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fact, that's what they did. They they were here for quite a while. Um probably the better part of a couple years and then all of a sudden they're not here anymore. There wasn't any problem. There
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wasn't any disagreement. They had already told me that that's their that's how they run. Now of course during that time they they heard us preach and teach and say that that's not what we think.
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But after a while they they move on to someplace else. So that that's an attitude. Okay. And that's why I said last week, you know, the vision of do you have the vision of an elder standing
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before the Lord and myriads of believers passing over the screen and the Lord saying about how did you shepherd this one or do you have the image of a believer standing before the Lord and myriad of elders are passing across the
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screen? The second one is actually more modern and more to the point. I think the first one is more biblical and all I'm trying to teach here is the first one is what we believe. Wherever you
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happen to be in it is is up to you. But um because I I don't believe that Paul at any point even as an apostle used
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coercion to bring about his um uh pattern or plan. I don't think he did. I I think that what he says when he says
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the Holy Spirit will teach this to you too. I also believe that that that applies in applies in reverse. You know that if that if I'm wrong that the Holy Spirit will in fact teach me that I'm
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wrong. So far he hasn't. At least not that I've recognized. Earern
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maybe that was the only church. I don't know. No, churches. They were house churches. Yeah, that's come out both in Romans u where Paul talks about the church that
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meets in their home. Okay. and also in early church documents that they that's why we kind of had that hopeful pattern that we would establish small
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congregations and then have apparently what they did was they they I mean they didn't have church buildings. Okay. And not long after all of this that they they became a persecuted people. So they
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did not meet in even assemblies as large as ours for the most part that what they did was they met in in house churches and it wouldn't just be that family. It
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would be several families um and one would be or one or two would be really the pastors of that house church and I guess they would share this letter. they would share the letter around the
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churches or they would assemble and the assembly might be out outside town in a in a grove u or it might be in as we know some of the members were wealthy
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and would have homes that had courtyards or larger rooms in which a larger body could meet. So there's a lot that comes out in um in the history of the early
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church because there are a lot of documentation but I I've I've heard that before that this is the church at Corenth. Well, Corenth. Well, yes, but that doesn't mean that the
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church at church at Corenth always met every Sunday together. That it appears that they did not. That they met in local house churches. Okay.
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Now, it is true that Paul is, you know, let's say he's teaching just to to Corinth. Well, Corinth was a rather large city. So you still have the issue of how how does this actually
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work and then okay so so we don't actually look at this as universal church this is the church at Greenville well everybody knows that there are a million churches in Greenville so again
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when when they and we don't assemble so I think the practical application of what Paul is saying is that this is how we live together when we assemble okay
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um so this the second 1. Then verse 23, he says, "When the whole
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church, see that phrase right there, I think cuts to the heart of the argument. the whole church. Well, the universalist, and I
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don't mean the Unitarian, uh, but the universalist view would say, well, that's the cosmic, that's the body of Christ. That's the whole church. But that's not how Paul is using this term. Context is important. In some
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places where he talks about the church is the body of Christ, we could be we could say that he's he's teaching the universal all believers are part of the body of Christ. But when it gets down to
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brass tax and how this is supposed how this looks um I I think it is very much limited within its own context to the
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local congregation. Then we had verse 26. What is the outcome then? When you assemble each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation.
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Um that's the every member ministry that we're kind we've kind of been talking about with regard to the word coinia. that it's not a top down. It is a a um
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participatory dynamic community life. And there's been a great deal of uh tension in the church throughout its
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history as to who can participate. And many of you have heard me say that I think that the two greatest dangers that have impacted the
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church in the west, one is individualism and the other is clericalism and they do work together in a sense. Um individualism in that I I
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have my own life. I I do my own thing. Um but the clericalism makes that easier because it removes any personal responsibility. from an individual believer, at least to
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the body. And I don't think it can be denied that one of the first things the church did uh as the as the years went on was it it reverted to a
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clergy. And that has been the pattern ever since. Um even among the the Anabaptists who started out without a clergy, they eventually would have a
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clergy or somebody who was responsible and then everyone else would basically abdicate their responsibility to that person or to those people. Um and but
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Paul says very clearly each one of you and yet he does say let all things be done decently and in order which means as I've said before it doesn't
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mean that every single Sunday every single person has something to say. But that's not what it means. It doesn't it does mean however that every single believer within a body has a role within
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that body. a role I think that is as he talks about in Romans 12 a role that is proportional to the measure of their faith. Now we all as believers have a
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certain measure of faith. It's often called saving faith. But Paul talks in 1 Corinthians about faith as a spiritual gift. And and then in in um Romans 12,
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he talks about the measure of faith. So we don't we don't all have then the same measure of faith as we grow in the Lord. I think it's implied that as we grow that measure increases
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argument against ignoring the body entirely not attending
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Church would say to a short time there's a bigger question there about their about their faith that they have no is not
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this touches on spiritual freedom but it also touches on
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act but has no challenge to be a liint or any part of that body. Do pastors then not need to look at that at that as a question of salvation? I I would
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not say that's a very good question and a and a very practical point that we've encountered throughout the years. Okay. Um I would not say that it's necessarily a question of salvation. It's certainly
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a question of maturity. What has happened that we we have to recognize that what has happened to modern evangelical Christianity is we have thoroughly atomized and
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individualized salvation. Do you have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ? Have you made Jesus Christ your personal Lord and Savior? How many of you have heard that? I mean that's that's the
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evangelical formula of the 20th and 21st century. then say, "What about it says you can't say I hate my brother, but I love the Lord." Yeah.
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Lord." Yeah. Very strong indictment. And and of course, these people would never claim to hate their brother, but they don't actively love. actively love. Yeah. I hope your hope your congregation
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does fine, but we're we're going someplace else. Now I that really comes from the whole cultural mindset of individuality that my salvation is between me and the Lord and that goes to
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what their criteria are for attending any given church and that is that they they're nice people good teaching you know and they they think they're getting something but it's a matter of I'm
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getting something from this and after a while I've gotten all that I think I can get and I'm going to go someplace and get some more. It's more of a smorgesboard type of
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Christianity, but it's very selfc centered. But I don't need I don't think that necessarily means that they're not believers. That's where I would go back to that passage and says the the Holy
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Spirit will teach them to that we're not, you know, I did not come to the Lord thinking this way. But then you keep reading scripture and Paul says,
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you were baptized into the body. you know, he he he keeps talking about the body and the body and you start to realize he very rarely talks about anybody individually. In fact, when he
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does because the person's sinning um you know, he he very he's always talking about one anothers and in the body and do you not know that you are the temple of the Holy Spirit? And so it's always
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about the body and and so I think if you're in the word after a while the spirit is going to convict you that you you have a role. I don't see how you could read Ephesians 4 and come away
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thinking, you know, I I don't have anything to do here. I just I just particip I just receive and absorb.
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anymore. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Our whole culture is commitment is a four-letter word when we have prenuptual agreements. And you know, I I do remember this was this was I think this was seared into my mind
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many years ago. We we were actually dealing with a couple in the church who were the wife wanted a divorce and yet freely acknowledged that
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there was no biblical basis for it that the husband had not been unfaithful as far as she knew. She did not suspect anything. Her her reason was it's been
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19 years and that's long enough. To which we responded that's not what you said 19 years ago. Okay. And we weren't there 19 years
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ago, but you know, we kind of know the formula uh till death do us part. Um 19 years, that's long enough. That's very indicative of the
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world in which is and that's why it's so hard for us to actually read and accept what we're reading because it's just so contrary. But isn't that kind of God's
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point? Wasn't that his point with Israel to make a distinction between clean and unclean and holy and profane? It's been his point that those
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who follow him are different. And so we can't simply say well that's just and I heard this in seminary. I remember the context was
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term elders which is advocated in the Presbyterian church. And when the question was raised that that is not actually in scripture, the answer was, well, that just won't work. You'll get
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some crotchety elder who always says no to everything. That that was the answer. Okay, that was actually the answer from the dean of faculty at the seminary. That just won't work. The idea of elders
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being elders for life. No, you can't have that because we'll just get on our high horse. And but it's what it says. It's what it what's what says what it
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says is what matters. But I I do want to spend a little time. Let's just finish up in 1 Corinthians 14 because this next one I think kind of to me it just kind of
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wraps it all up. It's all here in chapter 14. Okay. But he he's going on about um when you assemble when you assemble. And then finally in verse um
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33 he says for God is not a God of confusion but of peace as in all the churches of the
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saints. Doesn't that kind of settle and space? One. Right. The body of Christ.
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How many churches are there? Churches. All the churches of the saints. So I think it's at least in this section. You might be able to prove
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differently in a different letter, but I don't I don't think so. But at least in this section, Paul is using the word church in a distinctly local sense, a
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distinctly practical assembly of believers. And and I would argue that that's the only venue in which what what Paul exhorts actually makes sense. That that
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that's coineia is what he's talking about there. And that coinia is not something that really can be transplanted as you move around because
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it's the fruit of the it's the work of the Holy Spirit. But the when the culture, you know, we think that the early church had it
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easier because they didn't travel as much. But I think if you read Romans 14 or 1 Corinthians 11, you find out they didn't
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have it all that easier either because even within their non-mobile communities, they had significant stratification and different strata of
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society did not associate with other strata almost a a cast system. And yet in the church, Paul makes it clear there is no Jew or Greek, no barbarian, no
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slave, no schithian, no male, no female. In other words, all those socioeconomic strata are wiped away. Now that caused tension in the church.
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So the letters we're reading were not anticipating our cultural millu in the sense that that uh Paul understood that we would be very individualistic and
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private people. The Holy Spirit knew that. But he was still dealing with a people who had prejudices and bigotry and were looking out for their own interests. I mean for look at what they
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did in first Corinthian and Corinthians. I mean they were they were all very self-centered and self-serving. So that that's a human problem, not even a
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cultural one. Ours is just a different version of it. And I think that on the one hand, when your culture is teaching mobility and and um transient uh
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lifestyle, that is a challenge to biblical Christianity, but it's also a tremendous opportunity for biblical Christianity.
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It's it's a point at which the church the churches can be noticeably different, refreshingly different, and even savingly different from the world
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around. Oh, Aaron, go ahead. Yes, thank you. Put me in mind of what the Lord taught his disciples in Matthew 24. Then many will fall away and betray one another and
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hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold, but the one who endures to the end
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will be saved. And then Paul says to the Thessalonians, you you already love one another. Love still more. Okay? He he actually praises them for their love for
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one another and says, love still more. And then of course John is is really all about loving one another. Did you have a I did go back to your question last week
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that would leave a
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church. So putting aside We talked about earlier not involved at
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all their conscience is alive. They're engaged in their body when they leave the church. I think
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answer that. Church unfortunately as it is doesn't have the
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You mentioned that we're taught individual liberties, but I feel like more like more often as young people are, but once you get out of the world, you're
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every separate. I agree. I think that's one of the schemes and power of Satan. Yes. Is to atomize and destroy God's creation. I think that's absolutely one of his schemes and I think that that your
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question is is quite valid. I would argue that it's never the church that provides anyhow. It's always God. And we see that dynamic actually happening in
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Acts and then later on in Paul's letters. Now, it may seem impractical that that would ever happen again, but we shouldn't think so if we
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believe in the power of God through the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit. Um so the provision I think is something for which we trust. I I really do. Um and I think
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that you know to a small extent both Mark and I have lived that in leaving well-paying well-bed positions in
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engineering to pastor a small church. Okay. So there that that's just a personal I mean I can look at it and say God provided. He did provide and he provided in ways that I would never have
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forecasted. Looked ahead and said, "Well, this is what I'll do and no way would I have envisioned that I would be in this place." So, I think he can provide and can provide through the body much more than we give him credit for.
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However, that doesn't mean you can't leave. It it there have been people who have left our body with our blessing.
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that is quickly forgotten whenever someone leaves without it. Then we're the bad actors. We're the meanies. But you know, I think there's there are a number of situations, especially if the
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person is plugged in, dynamic, hearing the word of the Lord. But I also think the nature of their departure will be much different than just another job. I
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I guess what I'm saying is we we don't give God the time or the chance to actually show himself
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faithful. We respond and I'm saying this generically as a culture. We respond in fear and fear and anxiety and sometimes also
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pride not willing that the church should help. Okay? and and we have been told that too that that's not the right attitude of a member of the
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body refusing that the church should help. So I I think all of these things are valid and there may come a point in time where you know even the church would say we we can't feed you anymore.
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You got to go find a job. But um I I just don't know that that we even give God the the opportunity for that. Does that make sense? We don't even I I hate
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to say it this way, we don't even put them to the test because we're we're going to take care of our own family and that means I'm going to get another job and wherever that job may be, that's
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where I'm going to go and I'm sure there'll be a church there because God is faithful. He will lead us to a church. Okay. Yes. Now, those of you who are here didn't most of you did not
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start here. None of you were recruit recruited, right? None of you were recruited to be here except the children. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. But I still
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think, you know, it it it's something that we do move around. Uh that's a fact of our culture, fact of our environment, and all of us, including Angela and myself, came here from somewhere else.
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Okay. I think that at some point you you got to you got to stop that, you know. So even as you hear this, let's say this is the first time it ever you ever really heard what I'm
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saying and you say that okay if I'm supposed to stick and plug and and all this isn't the place well okay then find that place and
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plug in and be a joint a ligament a member of that body but I think that even within that there will be dynamics in which the uh the elders will agree
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and bless someone's departure whether it be to the mission field or whether it be uh you know back home to help take care of I'm just using hypotheticals you know I
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I don't know what the environment would be or I guess as I said the the clear one is if Mark and I just kind of veer off and start teaching from the Quran or some you know some eastern mystic uh we
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just blow our minds and go into false teaching then you all better flee run to the doors but um I just don't is it not fair to say that we have made it a bit
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too easy to move around that there really is no commitment required or even recommended um in the in the church today. Jenny
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Right. Yeah. I I I hope you didn't misunderstand me saying that that that that departure was not blessed.
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right? You can disagree with the elders and yet recognize their responsibility over the congregation, but it is all too often the case that disagreement means departure. They both start with D. I disagree, I depart. And that has I I
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think that is a very immature understanding of Paul's teaching. and God's purpose in the local congregation. But I want to quickly say that some of
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you will hear that. Some would hear that. I won't say some of you. Some would hear that and say, "Oh, this is a cult." As I said last week, this is the Hotel California. Check in anytime you
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want, but you can never leave or check out. I mean, no, that's that's not where I'm going.
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kind of church. Yeah. Okay. Satellite church.
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Well, I appreciate that question. Um that goes back to the to the root of what we believe in terms of where the elders come from. In Acts chapter 20 when Paul is speaking to the elders at Ephesus, he says, "Shepherd the flock of
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the flock of God among whom he has made you overseers." What he's saying there with his prepositions is first of all the elders are just sheep among the flock
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but they have been singled out by the Holy Spirit and by the agreement of the congregation to be shepherds. So, we're actually sheep shepherds. Shepherd sheeps. Shepherd sheep. Okay. We We're
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not We're not clergy. Okay. You don't need us to come to your hospital bed to pray for you. We don't have to bless at any meal that we're attending. I mean, that you you
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get that a lot in, you know, oh, oh, he's a pastor. Let him pray. Yeah. I'll just pick up the red phone. He goes right to the Lord. Um, no. We we are we
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are all sheep of God's flock, but we have been given a a higher responsibility to shepherd the flock. Now, using that metaphor that Paul uses
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so often, what are the sheep supposed to do? They're supposed to follow the shepherd, right? And that's what the
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writer of Hebrews says in chapter 13. Obey and Obey and submit. Now that's a tremendous responsibility on you as it is on us.
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James says, "Let not many of you become teachers be as such you incur a stricter judgment." On us. It means if I if we do have obedient sheep that are following our lead, our example, as Peter says in
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1 Peter 1 Peter 5, we better get it right or we will be misleading them. And in the judgment, it will not be your fault. It will be
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mine. But if we are leading according to God's word and by example, and you do not follow, then it won't be my fault. It will be yours.
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I'm heading there. Thank you, James. Okay. How do we actually fulfill our roles? Well, we fulfill them by all being in God's word. How do you know if the elders are teaching sound doctrine
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and practice if you're not in God's word yourself? Okay, you don't. and you are now very susceptible to being misled. And then at that point, and I was I
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appreciate you saying that because I was about to get there. If we're not teaching sound doctrine and you're not reading your Bible, then it's my fault and your fault. Okay? Do you follow me?
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I mean, it's a dynamic body community where we're we are elders, but we're not kings or princes, and we have no power of coercion. It's the Holy Spirit that
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that brings Quinnia and maintains it so that we we don't we don't try to guilt you into if you know we try not to
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manipulate try we don't coax we don't build programs to try to get you in. That's not That's not right. You're you're still the Holy
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Spirit is still guiding you. Okay. um Abe and then Abigail will be
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And what that says to Mark and to me is we got to be ahead of you all the way. And in so many churches, there's so little teaching that the pastors themselves don't have to grow in the
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knowledge of God and in his word because the people aren't growing. so they can always stay ahead. But there's a point, especially those of us who've homeschooled know this.
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There's a point at which your children have passed have passed you in algebra or in chemistry or something. Um, but in the in the church, that can't
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that can't happen. So, we need to stay ahead, but you you need to keep up. We need to be getting deeper in God's word and in his purpose and in our
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responsibility, but you all need to keep
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Yes. Yeah. John Lock taught that. I agree with No. Um, sorry, Erin. I had to bring Lock in again. Uh, the right to rebel. Um, no. I I do I think absolutely that the congregation at times will have the
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right. Um, and that's actually um, you know, it's it's in the scripture. You do not entertain an accusition against an elder unless two or three witnesses. Well, that's the Old Testament. That's
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actually the Old Testament capital punishment. So, I don't know how they got rid of elders. It kind of implies. Um, but absolutely there when you have somebody who, let's say you do have that
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elder who's just become a crotchety old fart and won't ever agree to anything. Well, I think the congregation has the power of impeachment. I really do. I I think they can say, "You're not you're
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not living leading by example. You're not in the word, you know, so you're not leading us in the way of the Lord. You need to step aside." We've we've actually done that in this church about
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30 some 33 years ago. The question was what benefit to the
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is whatever you want to call it. I just struck me have the opportunity and ability to
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imitate the way of life as you
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everyone and and all grow together. I know that's y'all's expectation. It really is. Um Alexander Stra wrote a book called Biblical Eldership. He wrote it about 30
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or 40 years ago. Uh just this past November, he came out with a new edition and I do want to recommend it to you. You probably find that on Amazon and especially read chapter 28 because I
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edited it. edited it. though. Um, Alexander Stra is a dear brother and a great example of of what it is that that we're trying to teach in
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terms of the local life of the new creation community. Well, let's close in
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Father, we do ask that you teach us and teach us teach us together. That we not split into clergy and ley or that we neither abdicate our duty or our responsibility either as
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shepherds or as sheep. That rather we would love one another and learn to love one another. That the Holy Spirit would be powerfully working in the midst of us in love as
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Paul says, being built up in love. We pray that that would be a characteristic that is noticeable in this body. But we pray it for all
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congregations. It is of no benefit that one small body of believers should embark on your path while all the others are stagnant or going in the wrong
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direction. We pray that you would indeed pour out your spirit once again upon your people as well as upon the unbelieving world that your church might
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grow in strength and faith as well as in numbers for your glory and for the exaltation of Jesus Christ we pray.